Big question, but basic...What is the difference between OTO and paganism?

ravenest

I fail to understand why I was told the Israeli chapter of the OTO dealt only with those already members,

Please elaborate ... what do you mean?

1) Any person, as long as they are free ( not incarcerated), of age (over legal age of adulthood in their country ) and of good report (two sponser members in good standing) has an UNDEFEASIBLE RIGHT of entry into Man of Earth Degrees. I.e. the Camp and Oasis and first Lodge Degrees.

2) A CHAPTER of R+C OTO deals with the OTO membership, it is part of the 2nd triad above Man of Earth, named The Lovers and does not deal with people seeking to join.

If you did contact a R+C Chapter they should have directed you to a Lodge or Oasis or the national body of Israel.

I cant concieve how a Chapter can exist in Israel without the 'lower bodies'.

If it WAS a Man of Earth body and they are closed to new members and the public they are breaking their 'cause of action'.

Are you sure it is OTO ... a while back I checked out an alledged dodgey OTO ... they didnt take new members ... just wanted money and to sell Motta books.

Tell me more about what happened or what led you to get that message from them. I mean I ASSUMED you were inquiring about membership ... but maybe you were asking about something else they considered private and in that case woulkd only deal with it if you were a member. But the comment that 'Peaches can join' led me to link the two together.

Can Peaches join? Has she joined? ... her Minerval would be interesting to watch ... who is going to do it ?

Poor little Peaches ... joining a SEX CULT !!! }) - she might be a little disappointed on that level :laugh:
 

ravenest

The sex-cult thing is interesting, it CAN be a little confronting for some ... I encountered a few nervous female applicants... thinking it might mean ravenest/sex cult. I'd just laugh and say , when you get to that bit, work it out with your boyfriend .... ;)
 

Zephyros

Well, I feel kind of foolish saying this, but on a lark I did a Google search, came up with an email address at Yahoo and inquired about an OTO chapter in Israel. The reply came shortly after, reading: "93 Greetings, Yes, there is a chapter of the OTO in Israel, but its activity is currently limited to the O.T.O members who are living in Israel. kind regards, Sr. XXXXXXX

93 93/93"

Aaaaaand... that's it. The Xs are mine, of course, not to publish anyone's name. To be fair, though, I can't say I know any members, so I can't profess to have any sponsors, hence the Google search. Of course, their website is merely a landing page, and another selling a Stelle for $200, so probably not that inspiring of trust.
http://www.otoisrael.com/
 

ravenest

Well, I feel kind of foolish saying this, but on a lark I did a Google search, came up with an email address at Yahoo and inquired about an OTO chapter in Israel. The reply came shortly after, reading: "93 Greetings, Yes, there is a chapter of the OTO in Israel, but its activity is currently limited to the O.T.O members who are living in Israel. kind regards, Sr. XXXXXXX

93 93/93"

Aaaaaand... that's it. The Xs are mine, of course, not to publish anyone's name. To be fair, though, I can't say I know any members, so I can't profess to have any sponsors, hence the Google search. Of course, their website is merely a landing page, and another selling a Stelle for $200, so probably not that inspiring of trust.
http://www.otoisrael.com/

But what did you inquire about? Where you living in Israel at the time.
Without clear info the response could mean many differnt things?
 

Zephyros

But what did you inquire about? Where you living in Israel at the time.
Without clear info the response could mean many differnt things?

I was, and am, this was only a few months ago. I actually merely asked about the existence of one, thinking that if there was, I would further enquire, but we never got that far, after the answer told me its activities were limited to members only. But perhaps, as I wasn't as clear as I should have been with you, I probably wasn't with them either.
 

ravenest

Ohhh ... its just a Camp ... that could be just one person, in that case it could be a specialists camp that doesnt deal mainstream OTO buisness. I cant believe there are so few OTO in Israel ???

They said their Camp was a Chapter? Hmmm ... not really enough info here to offer you a good response .... why dont you ask me what you wanted to know ;) ... I am out of date by a few years but one of my jobs in the order was to assist the SGIC ... sort of make sure everyone was doing things the right way ... and I dont believe it has changed THAT much.

There is a way of helping people that want to join with out the proper body being in their country, if thats what you want. If you just wanted info on the OTO activity in Israel they might have decided to be a bit private, depending on what you were asking.
 

Zephyros

Well, I don't want to know "anything" so much as "everything" :)

I guess... I want to learn, and practical books just don't "do it" for me as much as experiential education perhaps would... that's why I looked them up in the first place. Does any of that make any sense?
 

ravenest

Well, I don't want to know "anything" so much as "everything" :)

I guess... I want to learn, and practical books just don't "do it" for me as much as experiential education perhaps would... that's why I looked them up in the first place. Does any of that make any sense?

Yes it does. But if you want to know everything I have to assume you wanted to join? (As that's still not real clear unless I interpret 'experiential education'). ... sorry C. I'm not having a go at you :laugh: I am just wondering about your 'conversation' with them ... I am , imagining it from past expereince with people seeking similar info re OTO

Seeker; " I am seeking expereintial education."

Busy Lodge Secretary; "Look, do you want to join or not? If not, thats fine, there is plenty of info out there."

Seeker; " Sheesh! What a grouch!"

If you didnt want to join why should they tell you that extra bit of 'everything' that joining confirs?

If you want to know everything about OTO (accept the joining expereince) go for it ... its all out there. There is even a publicly publiched OTO curriculum (in 'new ' Liber Abba, I think - 'Book 4 - Magick ' - as it was known. Equinox 3, 10 has most of the public documents}.

If you wanted to know everthing about the OTO you SHOULD have been told how to join.

Not an uncommon problem, that no one knows 2 sponsors ... or even that there might not be another OTO member to sponser you. There are ways around that ... sometimes, a ckicken has to appear before the egg.
 

Zephyros

I think we're having a communication outage of some sort. :)

I hadn't thought that far ahead, to be honest. Israel can be a berg at the end of the galaxy in some matters, and my first question to them was, of course, if such a thing even existed here. If you go to a store, you ask "do you have bread," and then "if so, what kind?" and not "give me ALL THE BREAD NOW" outright. I was just trying to be polite. If it did exist, membership would have been my next question. If they refuse to tell me if they have any bread, or even if it is an actual grocery, they certainly won't tell me whether they favor baguettes or bagels.

Incidentally, you have inspired me to write them again, express my wishes, and ask for clarification. :) Let me say it for the record, so there will be no misunderstanding between us, if I can join, I will.
 

ravenest

my first question to them was, of course, if such a thing even existed here.

Okay ... thanks for your patience ... I think I get it and their reply a bit more now.

"... but its activity is currently limited to the O.T.O members who are living in Israel. kind regards, Sr. XXXXXXX "

Means, to me; yes there is an active body (but their website says Camp and reply says Chapter ???? ) , no public activity (Masses, classes etc ) for attendance by non-members, not open to members from other countries (unusual but ... ? )


[ Communication outage? What communication outage? But it was nice of that Sr. to send you 7 kisses ... }) ]