Newbie question: Visconti Sforza

The Happy Squirrel

Newbie question: Which decks and which editions?

Hi all.

I have found myself obsessing over collecting historical decks. So after identifying which is which in term of their historical timeline, I decided that I will need the Soprafino Deck, Tarot de Marseilles, and the Visconti Sforza. There are so many versions! And I don't know what the differences are, so I can't decide which is for me.

For now, I have the Mary Packard's Visconti-Sforza. But then I realized that this is a 'restored' deck, designed to read with, i.e. as a 'functioning' deck.

If I were to try to obtain a deck which is the exact copy of the original, which version of each of the above decks should I be looking for....?

Also, other than the ones I mentioned, is there any other deck I should be looking at?

Thank you all in advance! :)

Thanks so much!!
 

jean bosco

Tarot de Marseille

Hi Happy Squirrel,

I'm a newbie myself but I did my own little research already.

I think one of the oldest available Tarot de Marseille is the Jean Noblet, which is in this case a reproduction (Flornoy). You can look it up here. I have the Dodal from Flornoy and it's a great deck - highly recommended
http://www.tarot-history.com/Jean-Noblet/jean-noblet-page-3.html

This Pierre Madenie is a facsimile, which I find very appealing. And you can click "Historic Tarots History" where you can look up a lot of old decks...
http://tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/english/catalogue_madenie1709.html

There are lots of threads on that matter which TDM to go for. Just one thread/post.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1211192&postcount=26
 

The Happy Squirrel

Hi Jean
Thanks! I think I might have already bought the Madenie Marseiles on Amazon. I think US Games bought some from those guys (tarot de marseilles heritage) to resell?
There are so many Marseilles decks it is giving me a headache...... :/
Thanks again!
 

Wendywu

The only Visconti Sforza that has survived the centuries has missing cards. Every deck now available has had to do its best to reproduce those missing cards so whichever you choose will not be an exact copy of the original, as that is not possible.

I have just acquired the Il Meneghello Visconti Sforza (in the larger size) and it is incredibly beautiful. It is the one I will be using in future.

I also have the Packard which I prefer to the Pierpont Morgan USG version that I have, but there is a 2nd edn USG deck on its way to me and Chiska tells me it is very lovely. I also have the LoS blingy deck - very pretty indeed and a convenient (normal tarot) size but I think if I wanted a smaller deck than the Il Meneghello large, I'd buy their small edition.

As for TdM - do you want a reproduction (cleaned up, as it were) or facsimile (exact copy of the original) deck? If repro then I'd go for either the Noblet (based on a 1640 deck) or Dodal. If facsimile then the Pierre de Madenie. If you want a modern TdM based on the Conver then I think I'd probably choose the CBD but all of this is very much my preference and you need to look at the various decks available and choose based on your preference.

Hopefully others who are more knowledgeable about deck history will be along to advise :)

For Soprafino I'd go for the Il Meneghello, no question. Beautiful, tactile, lovely, did I say beautiful?
 

The Happy Squirrel

Thanks Wendywu!

I would love to know how the 2nd ed Peiropont Morgan USG differ from the 1st :)

When I first saw the Lo Scarabeo's version with the gold bling background I thought I liked it, but after browsing through more images on line, I thought that that version is definitely not for me....

For now, if I have to choose, I would go for the facsimile. But ideally, I can have both facsimile to collect and admire, and the repro / cleaned up version to play with :p My budget priority for now will have to be facsimile.

I think I already bought the Madenie Marseilles on amazon (let's hope it is the same deck!! otherwise it will be too expensive to ship this back from NZ!)

From what you guys are saying, Noblet / Dodal will be in my next list.

How would you characterize the difference between the Mary Packard Visconti-Sforza and the Il Meneghelo? Would you say that the first is a 'working deck' while the second is to admire only? I am just thinking if they are sufficiently different for me to spend on the Il Meneghello edition....?

As for the Soprafino, I think one is coming my way from Alida, that is the Il Meneghello yes? I did not know that when I bought it.... :p All I know is that that was the only one showing up at Alida Store:)

Thanks so much, please do keep your thoughts coming. I would love to learn more more more.... :D
 

The Happy Squirrel

Thanks!
 

Abrac

As far as the Visconti-Sforza, I love the US Games second edition printed by Grafica Gutenberg. It's an older version and long out-of-print, but it turns up on eBay and Amazon. It's a reproduction, the only restored cards being the four missing ones. The Devil & Tower replacements can be seen here:

http://www.felicityk.info/tarot/visconti/index.html
 

The Happy Squirrel

Hi Abrac
Thanks for that! I have long wondered about the differences in those 'replacement' cards!
What about the 2nd Ed US Games edition that you prefer compared to say the Il Meneghello edition or others?
Thanks so much again!
 

The Happy Squirrel

OK so it looks like the Mary Packard Visconti-Sforza is a modern 'repro', i.e. working deck, with the images being 'refreshed' and 'adjusted' in mood and facial expression etc - according to reviews on amazon. So this means, I will need to obtain a facsimile deck :D

From my readings here and on other sites, the Pierpont Morgan version is the one I should be looking at is that correct? And this is published by US Games? Sadly, they do not ship internationally...... So back to amazon I go :D

BUT, looks like US Games' various editions has different tower and devil modern-take cards. So I am thinking, if this is true, depending on which version I prefer, I may have to look at a vintage deck.

OR, consider the Il Meneghello edition. Not sure about their devil and tower card though.... if I am looking at the right pics, they look a little out of place compared to the rest of the artwork.... But, that might be a good thing. At least this way it shows quite readily which are the 'original' (as much as these things can be)..... I have not made up my mind about this at this point....

I am going through the other threads about historical decks as we speak

:D

Thank you all. The hunt continues :)