Premium German Rider Waite with Pam A crackle brown back and 1909 colouring

Abrac

The copyright situation is complicated, made more so by the fact there's no written contract. There are arguments that can be made on both sides, but there's really no way to settle it outside a court of law. I'm sure US Games are using this to their advantage if indeed they're playing the copyright card. :)
 

EmpyreanKnight

You're probably right, Abrac. :(
 

gregory

I wonder how they'd pull the same trick on 2021, gregory. It might expose them to a measure of opprobrium if they do that.
You think they don't already HAVE a measure of opprobrium ? I support Kaplan in bring Tarot into the mainstream as he has done - but this thing is beginning to give a nasty taste even in this Kaplan supporter's mouth.
Can people from Germany or other countries buy English versions? And maybe help the poor people of the US?
If it is indeed available in English in Continental Europe - that should be possible. But Kaplan and some other people from USG are members here, so I wouldn't say too much if you try to go that route. I have asked AGM if it is still available in English anywhere, and she hasn't answered.

I'm not very good with legalese, but I'll try my best to present the issues in a nutshell.

As far as I know, in the UK and US a work falls into the public domain 70 years after the author's death - meaning basically that anyone can use it to his/her own purpose/s. Waite died in 1942, so the copyright should have expired by 2012.

However, US Games contested that Pamela Colman-Smith is also a copyright owner even tho some laws posit the copyright owner as the person who commissions the drawings and not necessarily the one who executed it. Because of this and because Smith died in 1951, US Games maintained that the copyright would only expire 70 years after that - on 2021.
And come 2021 they will have some other reason....
Am misunderstanding something here - are they saying in the email that they can't sell other languages (like German, Spanish, Portuguese) in UK / US outlets or is that essentially an "it won't ever be printed in English"?
It isn't the language, I suspect - though I suppose that COULD be something USG use as a lever. I supposed it could be argued that putting "Herrscherin" instead of Empress makes it a different card and not copyright... Except that USG used to sell it in many languages too, and likely still do.

In your place (people who want it in another language) I would trawl all the European amazon sites (and ebay, of course) and if you find one, then find someone on the continent (as we say in the UK !) and see what you can work out. I got my German ones from UK amazon.... Probably they shouldn't have sold them to me; I guess that happened before USG landed on AGM.
 

gregory

Hm. Seems to have been pulled from all European amazon sites :( Even in German. It's coming up as unavailable at this time.

But I have found some in German - I THINK. Used.
 

Le Fanu

My local store had a couple of the Portuguese language ones in stock. I bought them. It has the Strength box cover rather than the Magician cover like the German one. In all other aspects it is the same. Same style of box, same font, same translated Pollack LWB. I'd have to check colour tones up close but to all intents and purposes it's the same as the crackle-backed German one.
 

Lisa Myobun

My local store had a couple of the Portuguese language ones in stock. I bought them. It has the Strength box cover rather than the Magician cover like the German one. In all other aspects it is the same. Same style of box, same font, same translated Pollack LWB. I'd have to check colour tones up close but to all intents and purposes it's the same as the crackle-backed German one.



I think the Strength box is the new packaging.

Last night I just read up on the copyright issues, and I'm starting to think that US Games believes itself to hold the US and U.K. copyright to the images ("lithographic reproductions") they had redrawn in 1971, under the authorization of Sybil.

If that's the case, the date for Waite's or PCS's death doesn't matter. They can just argue that AGM Urania's new reproductions are too close to the 1971 version.
 

gregory

Last night I just read up on the copyright issues, and I'm starting to think that US Games believes itself to hold the US and U.K. copyright to the images ("lithographic reproductions") they had redrawn in 1971, under the authorization of Sybil.

If that's the case, the date for Waite's or PCS's death doesn't matter. They can just argue that AGM Urania's new reproductions are too close to the 1971 version.
They do argue exactly that kind of thing. :mad: Even when someone creates a new one form an original 1910 one.
 

Abrac

I said before there's no written contract, but I was thinking, there could be one that's never been made public, at least I've never heard of there being one.
 

FLizarraga

I said before there's no written contract, but I was thinking, there could be one that's never been made public, at least I've never heard of there being one.

It does not matter in the end. I bet that, if taken to court all the way, USG would ultimately lose, as their position is ultimately untenable. But USG is counting on the fact that no one wants to be tied in court for years.

It's sad.