The Moon Nodes

ravenest

Two questions;
1.

Minderwiz said:
Some background might be helpful for you to think over. Firstly there is little doubt that Hellenistic Asrology was influened by Vedic beliefs at least since the time of Alexander the Great, whose empire included North West India.

Is there a tread here with more detail about this history? I thought Hellinistic astology had influenced Vedic astrology? The other way around. And also that before Alexander there were already similarities in those systems? But maybe there was no Greek astrology (as such) before the Hellenistic era?

I am exploring a connection with a root culture from which the Avestan and Vedic cultures emerged from whence a part of the astrological tradition might have emerged and inflenced both, later seperated, traditions. (see the PIE people - Proto-Indo Eropeans. ) The early Avestan culture migrated westward into Iran ( or was already established there and came to prominence) and seemed to be a major source later (e.g. Magi) of all sorts of knowlede into Greece via Egypt (via Alexandrian syncretism). I feel this culture could be source of the ear;y 'star-lore', I have been tracking for some time now.

And 2. (back on to the topic).

I think I understand the Nodes but why is the north more used than the south? Many times only the north is shown (is it considered that the south is the obvious opposite and not needed to be shown or what?) I have seen mean node with only one showing ... what is a mean node (it seems to just show the north node in some cases?)

Thanks

Minderwiz

ravenest said:
I thought Hellinistic astology had influenced Vedic astrology? The other way around. And also that before Alexander there were already similarities in those systems? But maybe there was no Greek astrology (as such) before the Hellenistic era?

My full comment here was

Minderwiz said:
Some background might be helpful for you to think over. Firstly there is little doubt that Hellenistic Asrology was influened by Vedic beliefs at least since the time of Alexander the Great, whose empire included North West India. The Greeks and later the Romans were quite happy to incorporate local deities into their observations and adopt from other cultures but I have not yet found any evidence that they adopted karma or incorporated it into their Astrology, though issues of free will and fate were often discussed. Nor was reincarnation an alien belief to them as Plato discusses it in the Timaeus.

However there must be some common myth as both Jyotish (Indian Astrology) and Hellenistic and Medieval Astrology both use the terms Dragon's Head and Dragon's Tail for the North and South nodes respectively. In turn Jyotish Horoscopic Astrology was built on a Hellenistic model. Yet karma is not there in Hellenistic, Medieval or Seventeenth Century Astrology probably because it did not accord with the dominant religious beliefs.

And re-reading it, I think I didn't emphasise the difference between 'Astrology' and 'Horoscopic Astrology' - the latter being a sub-set of the former. Or to be a little less obtuse, Horoscopic Astrology developed sometime before 36CE (we know this because the Astrologer Thrasyllus died in that year and he makes reference to previous texts on the subject) but we don't know how much before. the previous 100 years appears to be a ball park figure.

Horoscopic Astrology is the use of planets, signs and houses based on an 'hour marker' (usually the Ascendant). Now the latter is used by Vedic Astrologers and its use seems to date from the third century CE and the import of a Hellenistic Text, known in India as The Yavanajataka of Sphujidhvaja. The classical scholar, David Pingree, argues that this text contains technical terms which are clearly derived from Greek and have no other meaning in Sanskrit than an astrological one. Whereas these terms have a wider use in Greek and therefore are evidence that the flow is from the hellenistic world into India.

I believe that this view is now coming under something of a challenge but given that there was contact between the hellenisitic world and the ideas of Vedic philosophy. That means that there is scope for a two way flow of ideas that predates the development of Horoscopic Astrology and may have influenced its development. I stress 'may' because I just don't know.

ravenest said:
I am exploring a connection with a root culture from which the Avestan and Vedic cultures emerged from whence a part of the astrological tradition might have emerged and inflenced both, later seperated, traditions. (see the PIE people - Proto-Indo Eropeans. ) The early Avestan culture migrated westward into Iran ( or was already established there and came to prominence) and seemed to be a major source later (e.g. Magi) of all sorts of knowlede into Greece via Egypt (via Alexandrian syncretism). I feel this culture could be source of the ear;y 'star-lore', I have been tracking for some time now.

This looks very interesting and would definitely be a good idea for a thread. It certainly seems to be something that would help deal with the above issues in terms of the flow of astrological ideas between India and the hellenistic world.