Caylee Anthony V/S Casey Anthony (comparison chart)

prudence said:

Just a head's up, on the internet typing in all caps is considered shouting. It is usually part of most forums' rules to not use all caps.... italics are used for emphasis and considered the more polite way of emphasizing one's point.

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Hi! prudence,

I didn't use "all caps" for my WHOLE post.

It is more of a habit with me than shouting. If you go back to a lot of my posts in other
threads you will find that I am so used to doing it. I think if I had put the WHOLE post in caps
that would have been shouting. To me, just a few words here and there is borderline.

Thanks for your input, although I was talking to Minderwiz.

HUGS
tarotlyn
ETA: You can even look at all my previous posts in THIS thread and you will see that
I always do caps here and there...just habit for me, not shouting.

dadsnook2000 said:

I should point out that astrology has had its day in court more than once. One of the more legendary events concerned Evangiline Adams who was famous for many predictions including one about the hotel she was staying at and which she saw that it would burn down within a very short time of her reading. Evangeline was taken to court and her only defense, as offered to her by the judge, was to prove that an astrological chart was relevant and accurate. The judge provided the charts. Evangeline, as I remembered it from a few decades back, informed the judge that she couldn't read the charts as the children were dead. I believe the children were the judge's grandchildren. In any case, her trial was dismissed due to her demonstration that astrology was accurate.

I had thought that everyone had heard of that trial. Of course, the great fire of London was also predicted and led, I believe, to legal problems for the astrologer. Dave

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Oh my, how very interesting that is thank you, dadsnook, for sharing that...
I just googled 'Evangiline Adams' and found a link that tells what happened, and also tells of
Alan Leo, FAMED astrologer, being arrested in 1914 and was found GUILTY in London.

The article is here:

http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_10803.shtml

Maybe there have been less famous astrologers that have ended up in court.

Also, what I was referring to, when I said astrology in court, was in trials like Casey Anthony's case,
to show the capabilities and character traits of a person on trial.

HUGS
tarotlyn

leelee said:

nor I

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leelee (love that name!...my mother Chihuahua's name), anyway, there are a LOT
of people that feel the same way. I would only want to read her info or see her movie to find
out if she tells what really happened to her daughter, if you can believe her then

HUGS
tarotlyn

ETA...now heard on HLN that the movie deal that was offered to her, with her
being the STAR of the movie, was to be an xxx rated movie...and they have just withdrawn
their offer, saying that they didn't realize just how many people wouldn't go see her in a movie!

wow...now one of the jurors (juror 33) is now claiming that she didn't want to vote innocent...
...and that she really thinks Casey is guilty... OMG...there is no end to all this...and did I
just hear in an interview on HLN with the attorney for the grandparents (Cindy and George Anthony)
saying that they are going to sue their daughter, Casey, now??? what??? ...no end...

tarotlyn said:

Hi! prudence,

I didn't use "all caps" for my WHOLE post.

It is more of a habit with me than shouting. If you go back to a lot of my posts in other
threads you will find that I am so used to doing it. I think if I had put the WHOLE post in caps
that would have been shouting. To me, just a few words here and there is borderline.

Thanks for your input, although I was talking to Minderwiz.

HUGS
tarotlyn
ETA: You can even look at all my previous posts in THIS thread and you will see that
I always do caps here and there...just habit for me, not shouting.

Click to expand...

I get it, and I have already read this entire thread, I was also well aware that you were replying to Minderwiz, but as it was not in a PM, the interaction could not be limited to just you and Minderwiz, you do understand that yes? ... I did not say your whole posts were in caps but any word or phrase that is in all caps is indeed seen as shouting. So in your case it's like every few words comes off as a shout. It would be like me saying that the phrase "eff you", to me, means "aloha", that is what I always mean when I use that phrase, ask anyone who knows me. It might mean that to me, in my little world, but to the rest of the viewing public on a forum, it means something quite rude and offensive. And I would expect that an entire thread in which I insisted on using my own pet phrase in such a way would be equally as uncomfortable to read as this one.

I commend you, Minderwiz, for your extraordinary patience and civility.

prudence said:

I get it, and I have already read this entire thread, I was also well aware that you were replying to Minderwiz, but as it was not in a PM, the interaction could not be limited to just you and Minderwiz, you do understand that yes? ... I did not say your whole posts were in caps but any word or phrase that is in all caps is indeed seen as shouting. So in your case it's like every few words comes off as a shout. It would be like me saying that the phrase "eff you", to me, means "aloha", that is what I always mean when I use that phrase, ask anyone who knows me. It might mean that to me, in my little world, but to the rest of the viewing public on a forum, it means something quite rude and offensive. And I would expect that an entire thread in which I insisted on using my own pet phrase in such a way would be equally as uncomfortable to read as this one.

I commend you, Minderwiz, for your extraordinary patience and civility.

Click to expand...

...small world of friends then...

Blessings and HUGS
tarotlyn

It seems to me that my thread is getting off topic, once again.

Can we please stay on topic, which is found in post #1 ?
...or discuss other court case type of articles, such as dadsnook2000 brought
to our attention...I would greatly appreciate that.

Thank you!

HUGS
tarotlyn

dadsnook2000 said:

I should point out that astrology has had its day in court more than once. One of the more legendary events concerned Evangiline Adams who was famous for many predictions including one about the hotel she was staying at and which she saw that it would burn down within a very short time of her reading. Evangeline was taken to court and her only defense, as offered to her by the judge, was to prove that an astrological chart was relevant and accurate. The judge provided the charts. Evangeline, as I remembered it from a few decades back, informed the judge that she couldn't read the charts as the children were dead. I believe the children were the judge's grandchildren. In any case, her trial was dismissed due to her demonstration that astrology was accurate.

I had thought that everyone had heard of that trial. Of course, the great fire of London was also predicted and led, I believe, to legal problems for the astrologer. Dave

Click to expand...

Evangeline was great, *vbs*. The charts of the children were a ruse to 'catch' her; but she nailed it, said they were dead and so could't give a delineation, and she was right. She was then given another chart which she read. The judge found her not guilty because she 'nailed' the person in the chart to a 't'... the chart being the judge's son, *s*.

...sorry duplicated post deleted

FaireMaiden said:

Evangeline was great, *vbs*. The charts of the children were a ruse to 'catch' her; but she nailed it, said they were dead and so could't give a delineation, and she was right. She was then given another chart which she read. The judge found her not guilty because she 'nailed' the person in the chart to a 't'... the chart being the judge's son, *s*.

Click to expand...

wow, FaireMaiden, I wish I would have been there in that courtroom to listen and
watch all that she showed and told that judge using astrology. Can you just imagine being
there, back in those days? I would be worried about being 'tarred and feathered' LOL

Thanks for sharing more of that E. Adams case with us.

Has anyone else here ever seen charts of criminals, and viewed certain of their hard aspects
involving Uranus, Neptune, and/or Pluto? I thought I read a link, that someone posted in the
astrology thread one time, linked to a page with TONS of statistics regrading criminals.

It might be neat to acquire some natal charts of 'already convicted guilty' criminals
(convicted of violent crimes) and have a peek ONLY their hard aspects (just cutting through all
the other overwhelming details) ...that way you could see what I have been talking about
in this thread about hard aspects, particularly using outer Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto.


HUGS
tarotlyn

Thank you tarotlyn - I'm more than happy to accept that you were not shouting but Prudence does make a good point, and, as I too used capitals for emphasis, it's worth us both remembering that other people are following the thread and may draw the wrong conclusion. So now let's put that behind us and say no more about it.

Perhaps it would also be a good idea for you to start another thread at some point in which you explain how you make your judgements based on the combined hard aspects. I may be a sceptic when in comes to the outers, but most western Astrologers use them and I think members would enjoy seeing how you work and how to apply the method. I promise not to interfere, other than to ask factual questions

On the court cases;

The Alan Leo is of especial interest to Astrologers - Leo was convicted under the Witchcraft Act1735 (yes a piece of legislation that was nearly 200 years old at the time of the case) The Act was used to specifically target 'fortune tellers' If I can quote from Kim Farnell's biography of Leo;

By 1912, the number of fortune tellers in London had risen rapidly and it was estimated that between six and seven hundred were operating at that time. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner issued an order that fortune tellers of all types within his jurisdiction must remove all words such as "palmist", "clairvoyant" and "astrologer" from their doorplates, window signs and other public advertisements, and public concern was heightened enough for questions to be asked in the House of Commons in 1911 and 1912.

Leo was charged with having told fortunes on both 27 February and 8 April 1914. He pleaded not guilty. In February 1914, Hugh MacLean of the City of London Police had written to Leo under the name of William Hammond asking for a list of charges for horoscopes. He received in response a letter and a booklet entitled The Stars and How to Read Them. McLean then sent off for a ten shilling horoscope. For his money McLean received a Delineation of Nativity, and the advice that he could either purchase a more detailed judgment or add to it himself by studying Leo's books The Key to Your Own Nativity or The Progressed Horoscope.

The section of the report entitled Future Prospects was read out in court. It was shown that when the letter was sent, Leo was abroad and couldn't have written it. The case was dismissed, but costs were refused.

So Leo got off, on the grounds that he didn't send the letter (it was probably a stock letter and sent by an assistant but I don't know for certain).

However in 1917 a second prosecution was brought against him under the same Act and on a broadly similar charge. Leo argued that Astrology showed only tendencies, not fate and indeed his defence rested amongst other things on the phrase 'the stars incline they do not compel' However the magistrates, unlike the Evangeline Adams' Judge, refused to let Leo argue that Astrology could be valid on that or any basis. One phrase sunk Leo - in his 100 page report he said 'At this time a death in your family circle will cause you sorrow The prosecution leapt on it and said this was a clear case of fortune telling. How could Leo argue that Astrology was about tendencies, when he said that - Was death a tendency or was there a tendency towards death?

Leo was convicted and fined £5 but also had to pay costs of £25 (about £1,000 in today's money).

The upshot of the case was a retreat by Astrologers in the UK from making any sort of forecast, for fear of prosecution. Astrology became almost exclusively concerned with character reading - Horary for example would definitely have fallen foul of the Act. These two prosecutions did much to change the way Astrology was practised and really forecasting techniques were downplayed even into the sixties, a decade or more after the Act was repealed.

The other case Dave quoted was of Lilly's forecast of the Great Fire of London. The forecast was made in 1652, the fire occurred in 1666 - he ended up having to give evidence to the House of Commons Committee that was set up to investigate its causes. The forecast itself was in the form of a hieroglyphic (a sort of coded drawing). There was a lot of suspicion that the fire was deliberately started and might have major political overtones, as it was only 6 years since the restoration of the monarchy. Lilly had supported the Parliament side in the Civil War and he had quite a few enemies because of that. Lilly managed to convince the Committee that the forecast was not precise and that he knew nothing about the fire.

Both the Lilly and Leo cases centre on the ability of Astrologers to make forecasts. I think what tarotlyn had in mind was the use of Astrologers for 'personality profiling' by the law enforcement agencies. Some years before I retired, one of my team who taught on Human Resource Management courses happened to mention that in France Astrologers were sometimes used for the character analysis of job candidates. I've not seen any corroborating evidence for that but if it is done in that context, is it a major leap to suggest it could be done elsewhere and for other purposes than candidate selection?