Caylee Anthony V/S Casey Anthony (comparison chart)

31 days......

That would have been my evidence....31 days and it was not even Casey that called 911, it was Cindy. In the back of her mind you know she's thinking she fooled us all, just like she rented that move "untraceable" while arm in arm with Tony, her boyfriend the same day Caylee was last seen....

I just realized why I like you so much, wonderwoman, you are a Scorpio!
they are always so psychic and have this wonderful strength and 'deepness' about them!

Re: Casey... We have to let this go now because she can never be tried for that crime again ever
and no one can ever appeal the juror's decisions, plus it was 12 jurors that were unanimous
in their verdicts.

There is nothing we can do about it now. We can do charts and see what comes next for her,
if anyone cares to.

There are a LOT of very angry people in Flordia over this verdict today, so I would say that
it is NOT safe for her to stay in Flordia or be out in public right now. I wonder where she will
go. It will be hard for her to get a job even! Maybe someone wants to do a comparison chart
to see how close she was with her last boyfriend Tony? Maybe, if their synastry aspects
are strong enough, they might go back together...but they would have to move pretty far
from that area. Just thinking out loud


tarotlyn

tarotlyn said:

I wonder WHEN or IF law enforcement will accept or even believe what we see with astrology?

Thank you everyone for posting in my thread!


tarotlyn

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tarotlyn said:

b
Re: Casey... We have to let this go now ecause she can never be tried for that crime again ever
and no one can ever appeal the juror's decisions, plus it was 12 jurors that were unanimous
in their verdicts.


tarotlyn

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I so agree with both these sentiments. Sadly even some Astrologers that I've read on this case got it wrong because they ignored the astrological 'facts'.

One of the reasons, I didn't post any detailed natal analysis is that there's no birth times for virtually all the participants in this case - a point I made very early on for Casey. Yes it is possible to reach conclusions and do synastry even without those natal details BUT that analysis will always be subject to doubt.

In a criminal trial guilt can only be ascribed if the evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt and Astrology based on charts for which there is no known time of birth will ALWAYS contain reasonable doubts.

In a civil trial the decision is on the balance of probabilities (well at least in the UK) so the test is weaker.

In this murder case as Astrologers, we should look for evidence beyond reasonable doubt - it just wasn't there astrologically. Even the test of balance of probabilities would have presented real difficulties, as up to 50% of the 'evidence' will be missing.

What's more, as I stated early on, 'the stars incline, they do not compel' We all have the ability to make choices, to learn and to overcome the challenges of our natal charts and the challenges of relationships. There's no evidence that I'm aware of (please correct me if I'm wrong) of any history of 'accidents' or unexplained bruises or behavioural patterns that might have raised questions as to Casey physically abusing Caylee (if there had have been, then the child protection services and health care services grossly failed Caylee). However Casey did have a (separating) Mars/Uranus conjunction (not dependent on time of birth) - Does such an aspect inevitably give rise to displays of violent temper? Can the native not learn to manage that natal tendency? - If we answer 'yes' and 'no' respectively -we are basically denying the ability of people to develop, learn and grow - we are all prisoners of our charts and condemned by fate.

There was never sufficient astrological evidence (rather than speculation) to exclusively link the cause of Caylee's death to Casey. Even the combined hard aspects could not be taken as conclusive in themselves - they cover too many people, many of whom could be living in Orlando or visiting Orlando at the time of Caylee's disappearance. That's not intended to comment on the validity of the combined hard aspects, merely to show that in themselves they don't constitute the 'smoking gun'. If someone else killed Caylee (that is the death was not accidental), they could very well have the same combined hard aspects but so will an awful lot of innocent people. Tarotyn was very careful to say that in her posts, and not to use the houses from the sunrise chart. She increasingly expressed a view that the charge of first degree murder would not hold. That's a good and careful use of Astrology.

The lesson for Astrologers and students of Astrology is never claim to know more than you really do and sometimes it is better to say nothing than make claims for which there is no external evidence, whatever your gut feelings are. Sadly that warning has not been heeded elsewhere on the internet.

I agree very much with tarotlyn's comments that Casey may well find it impossible to continue her life in Florida and may end up a 'fugitive' from public opinion, having to relocate and change her name. I can understand the anger in Florida but it's misdirected. The anger should be about bringing the wrong charges and failing to carry out a thorough investigation of ALL possibiites - that was the job of the police.

With all due respect, Minderwiz, I STILL STAND BY MY EVALUATIONS
that I made in this thread, REGARDLESS of all of the details you have stated or called for.
I KNOW my abilities based on my own experience, and not on anyone else's. I do not, nor do
certain others in this forum, necessarily, HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOUR own opinions about
HOW TO do astrology or HOW TO apply astrology, or how my method is accurate or not.

I do deem my own method to be accurate for my purposes as stated in my 1st post.
Nor does ANYONE else on this forum, including myself, HAVE TO CONFORM to YOUR WAY of
thinking or YOUR WAY of using astrology to prove a point/s no matter how you phrase it over and over.
I am sure there are others on here that DO follow and agree with your methods, but there
are also some on here that follow and agree with my methods as well.

As far as the authorities, (police, etc.), they do NOT accept astrology as proof of a crime
REGARDLESS how accurate astrology is or how detailed it is or how correct it is. I have never
seen a trial here that is based on astrological facts (whether detailed or not). I would be in
shock if that ever happened in my lifetime, sadly.

As far as Casey Anthony, as I said it could be most interesting to chart her now to see
what transpires in her life from here on out. She was just served papers and is now being
sued by Zanida Gonzales (AGAIN), the imaginary Nanny. So she will back in court soon with that.
I think this is happening because she has been offered a movie deal. Her life is about to be further
tangled up in the courts, and it won't be pretty.

Plus Tim Miller, director of the Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team,
announced today that he may be suing Casey's attorney, Jose Baez, for $112,000.
I think all kinds of things are going to keep happening in regards to this case.

Further charts could be interesting?

...with all due respect
HUGS
tarotlyn

Holy Cow!!!!

Tarotlyn,
Your observations on this Casey gal are quite detailed. Interesting that you bring up lawsuits in civil court for her with that Zenaida imaginery babysitter. The Irony of it all is that Her Imaginery Nanny will get paid out in the end...Wow that observation just blew my mind. You know how they say your thoughts can be so strong, your words can be so strong that if you truly believe in them they can come true.......Well what do you think??

Ww

tarotlyn said:

With all due respect, Minderwiz, I STILL STAND BY MY EVALUATIONS
that I made in this thread, REGARDLESS of all of the details you have stated or called for.
I KNOW my abilities based on my own experience, and not on anyone else's. I do not, nor do
certain others in this forum, necessarily, HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOUR own opinions about
HOW TO do astrology or HOW TO apply astrology, or how my method is accurate or not.

I do deem my own method to be accurate for my purposes as stated in my 1st post.
Nor does ANYONE else on this forum, including myself, HAVE TO CONFORM to YOUR WAY of
thinking or YOUR WAY of using astrology to prove a point/s no matter how you phrase it over and over.
I am sure there are others on here that DO follow and agree with your methods, but there
are also some on here that follow and agree with my methods as well.

As far as the authorities, (police, etc.), they do NOT accept astrology as proof of a crime
REGARDLESS how accurate astrology is or how detailed it is or how correct it is. I have never
seen a trial here that is based on astrological facts (whether detailed or not). I would be in
shock if that ever happened in my lifetime, sadly.

As far as Casey Anthony, as I said it could be most interesting to chart her now to see
what transpires in her life from here on out. She was just served papers and is now being
sued by Zanida Gonzales (AGAIN), the imaginary Nanny. So she will back in court soon with that.
I think this is happening because she has been offered a movie deal. Her life is about to be further
tangled up in the courts, and it won't be pretty.

Plus Tim Miller, director of the Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team,
announced today that he may be suing Casey's attorney, Jose Baez, for $112,000.
I think all kinds of things are going to keep happening in regards to this case.

Further charts could be interesting?

...with all due respect
HUGS
tarotlyn

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Oh dear - I wish you wouldn't take such an absolute approach, especially when I happen to be agreeing with you. (or thought I was) With some genuine affection I would say:

The purpose of my post was to say that Astrologers should never DELIBERATELY claim more knowledge than they actually have (no matter what methods are used) in order to label someone a murderer, or attribute any other criminal offence to them. I think they should also check as far as they are able that they've got reliable astrological information before expressing such a view. That is good practice and should be part of professional ethics.

I do not in anyway think you did try to claim information that you knew to be suspect, indeed I think you kept to only the astrological facts you were certain of - the combined hard aspects - which is why I praised you!!!!

I said that I wasn't questioning your combined hard aspects as a valid method - I just checked back and in the post I said I thought your Astrology was both 'good and careful.' However if you are now saying that the jury was wrong and Casey did it, on the basis of the combined hard aspects then I'm sorry, I misunderstood your view

You clearly place great emphasis on them - I'm not arguing that you're mistaken indeed I specifically said that it's perfectly possible that if Caylee was killed by another person, it is quite possible that you'd find the same combined hard aspects,that supports your view

tarotlyn said:

IF Caley was put into the sole custody of the others in the world (you mentioned)
that have the very SAME COMBINED HARD ASPECTS as Casey and Caley had TOGETHER,
THEN YES, they could have the same result ending in the murder of Caley, a little 2 year old girl.

I was merely posting about their COMBINED HARD ASPECTS. That was mainly was my post was about.

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You may be completely right, above and I'm certainly not saying you are wrong. All I'm saying is that these combined hard aspects are not unique to Caylee and Casey alone. Others share them with Caylee. And I'm sure you never intended to say that they were unique to these two. I think (but may be mistaken) You are arguing that these (or other) combined hard aspects are regularly found in child abuse cases - and of course Casey had the custody you mention above - but may well not be the only person with access to Caylee who had such a synatry I don't dispute that you have those findings, all I've said is that they are not a 'smoking gun' You asked for opinions on them in your opening post and I've given my opinion - there's no need to shout at me if you don't entirely like it, especially when the dissent expressed in my post is not in any way fundamental. You are perfectly entitled to ignore my opinion if you want.

Just for my own understanding - are you now saying that despite the verdict Casey did it and the combined hard aspects are all the Astrological evidence you need to make that judgement?


I never claimed that the trials were determined by Astrology or have been in modern times. Indeed it was you who introduced the idea:

tarotlyn said:

I wonder WHEN or IF law enforcement will accept or even believe what we see with astrology?

Click to expand...

My reference to reasonable doubt and to balance of probabilities was to Astrological judgement. If we are going to go on public record that someone is guilty of murder, or other serious crime based on our Astrology, I think (opinion!) we should be very careful that we are sure of our judgement before publically making an accusation. You are perfectly entitled to argue that we can make accusations with impunity but I honestly believe that you agree with me and would not dream of making such an accusation unless you were absolutely sure that your Astrology stood up to scrutiny. I don't see what the issue is.

I was under the impression that we largely agreed on the situation. I thought you were of the view that she would be found innocent because there wasn't sufficient evidence, at least for the first degree murder charge. If I misrepresented your position in any way then I apologise for that. However, I would appreciate it if you don't accuse me of requiring every one to follow my methods when I clearly have not said anything of the kind in this thread.

Every time I raised some point with your combined hard aspect - mainly to ensure that I understood your position - you shouted at me and insisted that I looked at them and them alone. When I did look at them you shouted at me again (presumably because I didn't fully agree with you. And you are shouting at me again now.

Perhaps it's a personality thing, because I'm desperately trying not to antagonise you and to give you credit for good work and yet you still shout

So please can we have a truce on shouting and accusations. If you want me to discuss combined hard aspects, I'll give you my opinion based solely on an ephemeris and not on any astrological method or philosophical stance. But I suspect you'd rather I didn't and as I said it is not my intention to antagonise you.

Edited to add:

I thought I better add that my opinion on what is ethically correct for an Astrologer, is not based on just my thoughts.

If anyone's interested they can look at the AFA Code of Ethics

http://www.astrologers.com/join/

Scroll down a bit to read it.

Your apologizes are accepted, Minderwiz, and I apologize if you thought I was
"shouting" at you. I didn't think I was actually. I was just 'stating' my thoughts in response to your post.

Here is the thing, Minderwiz, I didn't feel like you could actually contribute that much to my thread
based on the fact that you indicated that you do 'not' use Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto in your methods.

Most of my findings in this thread WERE and ARE (not shouting I just always type like this...ask anyone)
based on Uranus and Pluto. So if an astrologer, (or anyone), does not agree with my findings
using Uranus and Pluto, or even my method (of just using hard aspects WITHOUT (not shouting) all the detail
that you can get lost in), how can they discuss what my thread is all about: namely: hard aspects.

Minderwiz, you haven't talked about these combined hard aspect's 'meanings' much at all,
and I realize that it is probably due to the fact that you don't use Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto
in your findings.

I thought it would have been nice, if we all could have just stuck to my original thread's idea
of just discussing the 'meaning' of those type of hard aspects.

So, no offense taken, and no offence given.
...in all due respect...
HUGS
tarotlyn

tarotlyn said:

Your apologizes are accepted, Minderwiz, and I apologize if you thought I was
"shouting" at you. I didn't think I was actually. I was just 'stating' my thoughts in response to your post.

Here is the thing, Minderwiz, I didn't feel like you could actually contribute that much to my thread
based on the fact that you indicated that you do 'not' use Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto in your methods.

Most of my findings in this thread WERE and ARE (not shouting I just always type like this...ask anyone)
based on Uranus and Pluto. So if an astrologer, (or anyone), does not agree with my findings
using Uranus and Pluto, or even my method (of just using hard aspects WITHOUT (not shouting) all the detail
that you can get lost in), how can they discuss what my thread is all about: namely: hard aspects.

Minderwiz, you haven't talked about these combined hard aspect's 'meanings' much at all,
and I realize that it is probably due to the fact that you don't use Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto
in your findings.

I thought it would have been nice, if we all could have just stuck to my original thread's idea
of just discussing the 'meaning' of those type of hard aspects.

So, no offense taken, and no offence given.
...in all due respect...
HUGS
tarotlyn

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Just a head's up, on the internet typing in all caps is considered shouting. It is usually part of most forums' rules to not use all caps.... italics are used for emphasis and considered the more polite way of emphasizing one's point.

Astrology in court

I should point out that astrology has had its day in court more than once. One of the more legendary events concerned Evangiline Adams who was famous for many predictions including one about the hotel she was staying at and which she saw that it would burn down within a very short time of her reading. Evangeline was taken to court and her only defense, as offered to her by the judge, was to prove that an astrological chart was relevant and accurate. The judge provided the charts. Evangeline, as I remembered it from a few decades back, informed the judge that she couldn't read the charts as the children were dead. I believe the children were the judge's grandchildren. In any case, her trial was dismissed due to her demonstration that astrology was accurate.

I had thought that everyone had heard of that trial. Of course, the great fire of London was also predicted and led, I believe, to legal problems for the astrologer. Dave

Topaz71 said:

Casey will only become a "celebrity" if the public allows her to do so. I will not be purchasing books, magazines or papers with her "tragic" story nor will I watch any shows about her.

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nor I