beginnerquestions

Karrma

Couple of questions on the Thoth, according to DuQuette.
One is on the Rosy Cross. Does Crowley discuss reversing the process? If one opens the white square to reveal the cross from the square, going from 3 dimensions to 2, can the cross then fold back up to the square, where the princess/earth is on the top. Then turn into an infinitesimal point, where there is complete melding?

Two is about magick. MagicK seems to me to be a tool, not an endpoint. Just like learning to read and write, reading/writing is not an endpoint, but a tool to access the thoughts of many others and leave a legacy of thoughts for others to ponder. Do you think magick id a tool or an endpoint/goal? What do you think magick is a tool for? Why should I need to know magick? What worlds does this open up?

Do you really think all magick is sex magick? SSeems to me that this would keep us on the physical, earthly plane, be very limiting. Just the life/replication/division or multiplication/death process rather than rectification/ transformation/ unification?

And lastly, can children "know" or ken, their guardian angel? Or does it have to be an adult process? Or do we have to unlearn all the stuff we learned from society/growing up, fears, become a child again, to know our guardian angel?
 

ravenest

Couple of questions on the Thoth, according to DuQuette.
One is on the Rosy Cross. Does Crowley discuss reversing the process?

Is this something from a DuQuette book ? I would need to know exactly what you are referring to.
If one opens the white square to reveal the cross from the square, going from 3 dimensions to 2, can the cross then fold back up to the square,

As a model, geometrically, certainly . Some Masonic jewelry shows similar function, each square is like a pyramid (like an Enochian 'square' ) with a curved back and folds into a sphere or opens to calvary cross with glyphs on each pyramid surface.

where the princess/earth is on the top. Then turn into an infinitesimal point, where there is complete melding?

I think I understand ? .... fold the R+C (on the back of the Thoth cards) into a cube and sit it so the lower earth portion is upright ? Yes. I am not sure what you mean about turning it into an "infinitesimal point where there is complete melding " though ?
Two is about magick. MagicK seems to me to be a tool, not an endpoint. Just like learning to read and write, reading/writing is not an endpoint, but a tool to access the thoughts of many others and leave a legacy of thoughts for others to ponder. Do you think magick id a tool or an endpoint/goal?

It is a set of tools and instructions TO an endpoint or goal.

What do you think magick is a tool for?

IN Thelema it is applied to help you find and then enact your True Will. Generally it is to explore, expand and balance your consciousness, skills and potentials to achieve ..... (insert reason if not a Thelemite ) ..... .

Why should I need to know magick?

See above.

What worlds does this open up?

Who knows? It depends on you, what is open or closed in you already and on your 'circle' of potential. It could open up your 'psychological world' and give you insights into yourself and the dynamics of 'soul' . It could open up the exterior world .... the dynamics of the 'world soul' , if you believe in that , or that there is a distinction between the two.

Do you really think all magick is sex magick?

No, is someone saying it is? Sexual dynamics are a large common denominator, but that isnt the only type of magick.

This might help:

" Yoga is the art of uniting the mind to a single idea. It has four methods.

Gnana-Yoga. Union by Knowledge.
Raja-Yoga. Union by Will.
Bhakta-Yoga. Union by Love.
Hatha-Yoga. Union by Courage.

add Mantra-Yoga. Union through Speech.
Karma-Yoga. Union through Work.

These are united by the supreme method of Silence.

II. Ceremonial Magic is the art of uniting the mind to a single idea.

It has four Methods.

The Holy Qabalah. Union by Knowledge.
The Sacred Magic. Union by Will.
The Acts of Worship. Union by Love.
The Ordeals. Union by Courage.

add The Invocations. Union by Speech.
The Acts of Service. Union through Work.

These are united by the supreme method of Silence.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox/i/ii/eqi02016.html

SSeems to me that this would keep us on the physical, earthly plane, be very limiting. Just the life/replication/division or multiplication/death process rather than rectification/ transformation/ unification?

It depends what level one is working on and how one views sex. If one only sees the biological function then , yes.

In Crowley's system of teaching the 'seceret' of sexaul magick (although it contains other teachings) this is the first approach - ' resurrection' is seen as 'genetically' ; the 'Master' lives on in his 'son' or appointed. The first cycle of mysteries are from this earth viewpoint - and geocentrically explained ( Think of the Dying God mysteries - Osiris - fertility - daily cycle - the 'God' , lives in the Sun, and is reborn each dawn or at the beginning of the yearly cycle. Things get more 'celestial' after that in the next 2 cycles.

Its a hard subject to comprehend ( purely 'western' tantra ) without the background of its development; I recommend looking at the work of ;

Randolph ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_Beverly_Randolph

Definitely - Ida Craddock ; http://www.idacraddock.com/

Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor ;
https://newtopiamagazine.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/mysteries-of-the-hermetic-brotherhood-of-luxor/

And lastly, can children "know" or ken, their guardian angel? Or does it have to be an adult process? Or do we have to unlearn all the stuff we learned from society/growing up, fears, become a child again, to know our guardian angel?

I see the concept of the HGA as different from 'guardian angel' . So I am not sure which one you are referring to ?
 

Aeon418

One is on the Rosy Cross. Does Crowley discuss reversing the process?
Yes, in a way. But it's quite a deep subject. I could blather on all day about 'setting the Daughter on the Throne of the Mother', crossing the Abyss, and the formula of N.O.X., but it would probably only heap confusion upon confusion. So I think it's best to just say that it represents a very advanced step and then leave you with a few suggestive lines from one of Crowley's visions.
28th Aethyr: BAG said:
O man, that must ever be opening, when wilt thou learn to seal up the mysteries of the creation? to fold thyself over thyself as a rose in the embrace of night? But thou must play the wanton to the sun, and the wind must tear thy petals from thee, and the bee must rob thee of thy honey, and thou must fall into the dusk of things. Amen and Amen.
Two is about magick. MagicK seems to me to be a tool, not an endpoint.
Yes. It's a means and not an end in itself.
Why should I need to know magick? What worlds does this open up?
You don't need to know magick. But it's a very good tool for opening up the world of yourself.
Do you really think all magick is sex magick?
No. All magick is not sex magick. But all magick is sexual. That's not a contradiction either. Are you misinterpreting a passage on page 76 of Lon's Thoth Tarot book where he quotes himself. I know someone who came to the same conclusion after reading that bit.
Lon Milo DuQuette said:
All Magick is sexual. Indeed, all life is sexual. It is either overt of implied, invoked or directed, stored or released. The Mass of the Roman Catholic Church is every bit as much a pantomime of the sex act as the "Great Rite" of the witches. The real question is "what is sex symbolic off?"
And lastly, can children "know" or ken, their guardian angel? Or does it have to be an adult process? Or do we have to unlearn all the stuff we learned from society/growing up, fears, become a child again, to know our guardian angel?
It's a huge topic and potentially very misleading. It is an adult process in the sense that a developed and balanced mind is the 'temple' for the Holy Guardian Angel. The building of that 'temple' is the process of initiation. And that process may indeed involve the destruction of existing 'thought patterns' that have been built on the journey towards adult maturity.
On the flip side initiation is also the process whereby we become, in a sense, children again and 're-enter the womb of the mother.' To understand this look at the 3 of Swords - Sorrow. That card represents the effect that the Mind has on our connection with the 'Cosmic Mother', the Universe, God, or whatever you want to call it. The mind and it's perception of individuality severs the 'cosmic umbilical cord' and takes away our sense of universal connection. The goal of the initiatory path is to develop as human beings and at the same time regain that connection and see beyond the illusion of Universal Sorrow. The Holy Guardian Angel is the connecting link in this process.
 

Abrac

All magic involves the direction of the creative force toward a desired goal. Sexual energy is the manifestation of the creative force on the material plane. Sex magic is the conscious manipulation sexual energy. It can be transformed into a higher form, or mixed with other creative energies to increase the power of a working. So I believe it's technically incorrect to say all magic is sexual, but all magic involves the creative force.

When you see phallic symbolism in occult art, it may or may not symbolize a literal sexual organ; oftentimes it's a symbol of the creative force.
 

Zephyros

I tend to think of it like cooking a meal. The entire Tree of Life (and as an extension, the unfolding of the Cross) can be thought of as the preparation and cooking process. When the Tree/Cross is completely unfolded at Malkuth, then the food is ready, the table has been set and the guests are sitting down. But then, since "size matters not," Malkuth is then Keter, the nucleus of the next set of processes that use the previous finished product as their base. For this it is said "Keter is the Malkuth of the Ain Sof Aur." The actual eating of the meal (in essence, the experience of Creation) is a whole new thing, with something like the salt and pepper of Keter acting as catalysts for experience (salt doesn't taste objectively salty by itself, it tastes salty because we experience and appreciate it as such).

Some representations of the Tree depict it as concentric circles. Malkuth is the complete unfolding of the potential of Keter, but that's just relative. If you back away enough and see it from afar, Malkuth becomes a point in itself, ready to be unfolded to its potential.

(If I understood the question).
 

Karrma

Thank you all for answering, really good ideas, and have had fun going forward. I made the mistake of asking too many questions at once, and cannot answer all, but thank you.

Originally Posted by Lon Milo DuQuette
All Magick is sexual. Indeed, all life is sexual. It is either overt of implied, invoked or directed, stored or released. The Mass of the Roman Catholic Church is every bit as much a pantomime of the sex act as the "Great Rite" of the witches. The real question is "what is sex symbolic off?

yes, this was the quote by AC. This was what I was thinking of. But I was thinking also that this would limit to the life/death/life cycle which is what we experience here. If there is another plane of infinity/infinitesimal, or of nothingness, then there would not be this cycle. Is that not one goal, to go above the life/death/life, or sexual cycle?

And as far as the rosy cross. DuQuette explained the initial central white dot, and this symbol expanding to explain more. It seems easy for me to then reverse it so the dot would include all that is discussed, the princess at the bottom, becoming the top as it is a circle cycle. symbol of the infinitesimal point expanding to include all, what AC symbolizes as Nuit and Hadit. I have read a lot of the poetry/kabbalah explanations before, but somehow just the simple visual seemed to really be an aha moment for me, I just wondered whether the symbolism is two ways, opening and closing, or just unidirectional.

And on the question of the HGA, it is personal and very internal, very deep, and realize that I can not really ask anyone else about what I feel there.