Tarot of Ceremonial Magick Study Group: The Fool

foolMoon

I hope you didn't think that when I said about being bogged down, I was referring to you. I was talking about myself, so fortunately I went to the beach.

Some interesting questions you have raised here, unfortunately I don't know enough about it.

No worries at all. I am cool whatever whoever you meant :) The main thing is we are all discussing about TOCM on Thoth background.

We are human beings with emotions, feelings and thoughts, sometimes we tend to talk about personal feelings and thoughts about ourselves or others on the side during the main discussions. I feel its perfectly humane and natural thing.:)

Sometimes we get close, sometimes we fall out, and back again just like the spirits and sephiroth on tol fluctuating between the mercurial and qliopptic spectrum :D
 

foolMoon

True. Even a brief description of the images would've been helpful. The majors at least seem to have some connection with Crowley, his writings or his life. A person versed in Crowley can probably see a lot that others can't.

YAWATU.

Yes, I agree. I feel that due to the fact that Tarot of Ceremonial Magic is based on Thoth Tarot and Thelema, although the Art is totally different, we could use Book of Thoth as its textbook, while using the DuQuette's book as quick reference. But it is an excellent reference book, and covers a lot inspite of with sparse details.

I don't feel it is necessary to create another Thoth deck with the similar art, because Thoth deck has established firmly its place with its Art and Under flowing authority. Can someone create better art Thothy deck than Thoth deck some day? Maybe or maybe its impossible.

If someone did, will it threaten the place of the Thoth deck? I guess not, because Thoth deck is the original backed by two masters in occult history i.e. Crowley and Harries.
 

smw

Sometimes we get close, sometimes we fall out, and back again just like the spirits and sephiroth on tol fluctuating between the mercurial and qliopptic spectrum :D

Nicely put :) These aspects are very human orientated as you say, feelings, thoughts, intuitions, distortions etc. What about on the more universal grander level such as the Fool archetype under discussion? If the Fool represents all potential and the Qliphotic aspect the reverse.... Isn't that a much bigger kettle of fish? Those forces might make these human ones look like kids in a playground.

Also, maybe even the mercurial spirits/aspects/forces may have more to them than is apparent. Are they always positive and loving? Or do they have their own spectrum. The swastika on the Fool card is interestingly mentioned as a magical weapon in L231, though for the Magician. Lightning flash of creation, whirling thunder bolt...immense power... Hmmm . I can't help thinking of the nazis who used the swastika and how it is often associated now with very dark powerful forces instead of the peaceful symbol used previously in many cultures.

That was a great post that you made earlier :)
 

Zephyros

Moderator Note:

A lot of flexibility has been given with this thread in terms of subject matter, it being the first in the study group and it made sense that things like the sigils would need to be hammered out. However, it is starting to go wildly off topic and a number of off-topic posts have been moved here. If you wish to discuss the general topic of archetypes, Talking Tarot is your place.

Please stick to the topic. If you're starting to discuss other things, maybe it is time to move on to the next card?

Zephyros
 

foolMoon

Thank you for moving the thread to the relevant forum. Due to the nature of the deck and the card, they must have been scoped out a bit.

I feel I learned a lot during the study and discussion. I have never known before that there were a set of spirits received by Crowley in Liber 231, alloacted to each 22 major cards in the deck, and the nature of the sigils on the cards for each of the spirits. All seems a lot clearer now.

I feel that the study of Tarot is life long. It will go on. If anyone finds something new or interesting aspect about the Fool card, be it Thoth or ToCM, then perhaps, this is the right place to add? Or perhaps create new threads for it in this forum? I am sure the modreator will further confirm on this point.

Meanwhile the journey of tarot and the studies will continue.
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Aeon418

One is the "regular" Tree, the other is from the Qlippoth. At least in this case their meanings aren't to difficult to decypher. The Swastika is a standard Aleph symbol, while the mouth would suggest to me the "Death" aspect of the Fool, "killing" the pure nothing of the Ain Sof. At least that's my guess.
You might find the 'comparison table' useful when examining the sigils. It's the list that sits between both tables of sigils.

The top line says to compare Aleph with Tzaddi. That means compare Mercurial Aleph with Mercurial Tzaddi. (And vise versa with the Qliphotic sigils.)

If you don't swap the sigils around like Lon has done you have the Thunderbolt(Aleph) and the "Woman who maketh Thunderbolts"(Tzaddi - Wake World)

If you do go with Lon's swap then you got HPK(Aleph) and RHK(Tzaddi) according to Liber Arcanorum.