pastpass
I never do reading directly related to health. It's just too hard for me. Seek doctor's advice, that's what I do and always suggest others to do.
health?
Eco74
Pastpass, I agree that one should never take on the role of the physician and one should always refer to a doctor rather than suggest a course of action for solving anything that is amiss physically.
However, healthreadings can be a help on the way for those who are trying to recover, to give them a statusreport of sorts.
It can also be a way to get incentive to finally get to a doctor after waiting and waiting (as many tend to do) for it to get better by itself.
Also, it can be a step on the way to recovery in indicating to the querent whether s/he is getting the help s/he needs already or should seek further help elsewhere.
There is a time and place for everything, including health-readings though they should not be given more credability than "consultation" in my opinion.
The only reason I occationally do them is to see if I can see anything that makes sense. I have no medical training so when I do get it right it's a special kind of feeling.
And ofcourse, I would never give recommendations to only follow the advice I get from the cards. Unless the advice would be explicitly to go see a doctor.
However, healthreadings can be a help on the way for those who are trying to recover, to give them a statusreport of sorts.
It can also be a way to get incentive to finally get to a doctor after waiting and waiting (as many tend to do) for it to get better by itself.
Also, it can be a step on the way to recovery in indicating to the querent whether s/he is getting the help s/he needs already or should seek further help elsewhere.
There is a time and place for everything, including health-readings though they should not be given more credability than "consultation" in my opinion.
The only reason I occationally do them is to see if I can see anything that makes sense. I have no medical training so when I do get it right it's a special kind of feeling.
And ofcourse, I would never give recommendations to only follow the advice I get from the cards. Unless the advice would be explicitly to go see a doctor.
Elven
Hi All, 
Just generally ...
My 'Doctor' cards are:
The Hierophant
Ace of Swords
Recovery Card is:
4 of Swords
Recovered Card is:
10 Pentacles
Blessings
Elven x
Just generally ...
My 'Doctor' cards are:
The Hierophant
Ace of Swords
Recovery Card is:
4 of Swords
Recovered Card is:
10 Pentacles
Blessings
Elven x
mythos
My daily today was the Albano Waite 5 of Pentacles .... I felt cold all day ... in spite of the heater, and I now have a cold. I blame the snow on the card myself .. oh, and the boychild who would breathe his germiness all over me on the weekend. But, I was particularly struck by the 'coldness' of the card when I drew it. Sometimes things are that obvious I guess.
mythos
mythos
Lady Maria
lynn said:
I believe that health problems begin in the mental /emotional/spiritual aura of an individual and then manifest into physical problems and complications if it is not cleared out in the other energy fields.
So with this belief, Cups could indicate an emotional issue which has not manifested physically, swords- mental, wands- spiritual and pentacles could mean that it has manifested in the physical form. You could use the surrounding cards to see what the root problem is. (If cups are present perhaps a relationship breakup has caused stress that manifested into migrains... just an example).
I think any issue or problem that is upsetting a person's balance has the capability to become a physical problem, it's just a matter of transforming it before it gets to that point. It happens so obviously with children; If they are feeling unsafe or anxious, they often instantly get a tummy ache.
I think a good way to avoid the complications of diagnosing and counselling on the physical health would be to focus on the root of the problem intstead of it's symptoms.
Blessings, Maria
Windhorse
I understand that if one is not familiar with a particular field of learning, that one would be hesitant to speak about it with any great deal of confidence...
...but sheesh, people, fellow taroists, give yourselves and your talents as healers some credibility!!!!
All these people saying, "don't say anything, just send them off to the doctor!!"...
I have just posted in another health-related thread, and I ask you read my post there, as I won't repeat myself.
Sure, if you don't know a thing about health/wellbeing/healing, then don't talk about it. But I have yet to know someone who works with Tarot who DID NOT have an inherent healing talent.
Instead of handballing it to MD's, how about taking the time to learn a little about healing. Its not as hard as the Emperor-like medical system makes it out to be. That is not to belittle the effort that many people take to study medicine and be the best damned healers they can be!
Western Doctors/Medicine is not the be-all-and-end-all of human health. In fact I wouldn't be as critical of Western Medical practice if they didn't make themselves out to be infallible. A good healer is a humble healer, someone who isn't afraid or too proud/egotistical to say, "I don't know..."
I have shown Western Doctor's proof that an alternative way has worked, yet they refuse to acknowledge. And this was with my own health (see thread Tarot cards and HEALTH). But there are good doctor's out there, just as their are terrible acupuncturists and untrustworthy naturopaths.... it all boils down to the individual, not the system per se.
Enough of that rant... I just feel passionate about Healers giving themselves some credit and having faith in the talents and skills that they have come into this world wielding.
As for using Tarot for 'health' readings....
I actually use a relationship reading spread for health diagnosis.
Basically, you examine the 'relationship' the client has with the illness/wound, and treat that 'relationship' as having its own unique personality.
It is amazing what you get, and how you do literally see the the light-bulb switch on in their head!
The spread is set out in a cross shape, 5 cards - one in the centre and then 4 in each direction.
CARD 1 (west): the client.
CARD 2 (east): the 'other' person, in this case the illness/wound/sore spot, etc...
These cards represent the two 'individuals' but only in regards to their nature in the context of this relationship.
CARD 3 (centre): the 'relationship'. It is often said that when two people are in a relationship, they becomea third person, the sum of the two individuals. You then treat this 'relationship' as a person, and this card represents the nature of this 'person'.
CARD 4 (south): the 'unconscious' nature of this 3rd person/relationship. What's 'really' going on, deep down....
In a health-relationship reading, card 3 is the symptom, card 4 is the root. An understanding of how Traditional Chinese Medicine views health/illness is important here. Whereas Western medicine seeks to treat the symptom, Eastern medicine seeks to find the root of the symptom and treat that instead. It is the difference between treating an illness, and preventative medicine. I recommend reading "Between Heaven & Earth" (can't remember the authors), and/or "The Web that has no weaver". Both very good introductions, written plainly and easily, about chinese med.
card 5 (north): an indication of where this 'relationship' is heading.
Like Lady Maria just said, the physical illness is a manifestation of something in one of the other realms (emotional, mental, spiritual). This is what Holistic Health is all about, one cannot separate one from the other....
...as above so below....
Getting GP's to do tests is fine - just don't take their interpretations of tests as gospel. Do your homework. Take the test results to other doctors, other practitioners, etc. You have evry right to the test results - they are yours and no doctor can deny you access to that information. Also, from my experience/knowledge, the ranges they give as being 'normal' for various tests are actually averages based on the values for 'sick' people. Therefore, the averages that the medical system see as being normal are actually quite low - maybe not dangerously so, but they would certainly react adversely if your levels were 'higher' than the average, and seek to bring those levels down.
Conversely, if your levels are too low but within the 'normal range', you won't be treated as you should be, thus allowing the deficient levels to continue.
As I have said, Western Doctors' ideas of what is 'healthy' is way out in my own humble opinion.
Hope this has been helpful. Let me know if you'd like more info.
...but sheesh, people, fellow taroists, give yourselves and your talents as healers some credibility!!!!
All these people saying, "don't say anything, just send them off to the doctor!!"...
I have just posted in another health-related thread, and I ask you read my post there, as I won't repeat myself.
Sure, if you don't know a thing about health/wellbeing/healing, then don't talk about it. But I have yet to know someone who works with Tarot who DID NOT have an inherent healing talent.
Instead of handballing it to MD's, how about taking the time to learn a little about healing. Its not as hard as the Emperor-like medical system makes it out to be. That is not to belittle the effort that many people take to study medicine and be the best damned healers they can be!
Western Doctors/Medicine is not the be-all-and-end-all of human health. In fact I wouldn't be as critical of Western Medical practice if they didn't make themselves out to be infallible. A good healer is a humble healer, someone who isn't afraid or too proud/egotistical to say, "I don't know..."
I have shown Western Doctor's proof that an alternative way has worked, yet they refuse to acknowledge. And this was with my own health (see thread Tarot cards and HEALTH). But there are good doctor's out there, just as their are terrible acupuncturists and untrustworthy naturopaths.... it all boils down to the individual, not the system per se.
Enough of that rant... I just feel passionate about Healers giving themselves some credit and having faith in the talents and skills that they have come into this world wielding.
As for using Tarot for 'health' readings....
I actually use a relationship reading spread for health diagnosis.
Basically, you examine the 'relationship' the client has with the illness/wound, and treat that 'relationship' as having its own unique personality.
It is amazing what you get, and how you do literally see the the light-bulb switch on in their head!
The spread is set out in a cross shape, 5 cards - one in the centre and then 4 in each direction.
CARD 1 (west): the client.
CARD 2 (east): the 'other' person, in this case the illness/wound/sore spot, etc...
These cards represent the two 'individuals' but only in regards to their nature in the context of this relationship.
CARD 3 (centre): the 'relationship'. It is often said that when two people are in a relationship, they becomea third person, the sum of the two individuals. You then treat this 'relationship' as a person, and this card represents the nature of this 'person'.
CARD 4 (south): the 'unconscious' nature of this 3rd person/relationship. What's 'really' going on, deep down....
In a health-relationship reading, card 3 is the symptom, card 4 is the root. An understanding of how Traditional Chinese Medicine views health/illness is important here. Whereas Western medicine seeks to treat the symptom, Eastern medicine seeks to find the root of the symptom and treat that instead. It is the difference between treating an illness, and preventative medicine. I recommend reading "Between Heaven & Earth" (can't remember the authors), and/or "The Web that has no weaver". Both very good introductions, written plainly and easily, about chinese med.
card 5 (north): an indication of where this 'relationship' is heading.
Like Lady Maria just said, the physical illness is a manifestation of something in one of the other realms (emotional, mental, spiritual). This is what Holistic Health is all about, one cannot separate one from the other....
...as above so below....
Getting GP's to do tests is fine - just don't take their interpretations of tests as gospel. Do your homework. Take the test results to other doctors, other practitioners, etc. You have evry right to the test results - they are yours and no doctor can deny you access to that information. Also, from my experience/knowledge, the ranges they give as being 'normal' for various tests are actually averages based on the values for 'sick' people. Therefore, the averages that the medical system see as being normal are actually quite low - maybe not dangerously so, but they would certainly react adversely if your levels were 'higher' than the average, and seek to bring those levels down.
Conversely, if your levels are too low but within the 'normal range', you won't be treated as you should be, thus allowing the deficient levels to continue.
As I have said, Western Doctors' ideas of what is 'healthy' is way out in my own humble opinion.
Hope this has been helpful. Let me know if you'd like more info.
PlatinumDove
Windhorse said:
I beg to disagree here. I work in a hospital laboratory, I've been part of the "normal" range studies. My father has worked in a laboratory his entire life, as well as running a hospital laboratory and being the vice-president of a national US Medical technologist society (AMT), and being titled as the Medical Technologist of the State where he lived for one year, as well as my mother being a nurse and having worked in a hospital lab as well.
The very definition of a "normal" test range is where 95% of the general populace out on the street will come out with results in between those two values. When a lab gets their ranges for the normals for ANY blood/body fluid test, they choose healthy individuals to run the test on and get their ranges that way. They do not average together values gotten on unhealthy people. That would undermine the very core of what we do as laboratory professionals.
I apologize ahead of time if any of this post sounds harsh, but I am very dedicated to the laboratory and its use of science to uphold the quality of life in people who are our patients.
MareSaturni
Windhorse said:
I don't think anyone is saying that. Health readings ARE complicated - anyone who says otherwise please give me some classes. What they are saying is that you can say 'look, i see some health problems' and *advice* the querent to seek a doctor, a healer...a whatever. We say doctor because that's what most of insurances cover but, of course, if you have access to alternative methods and you like them, go ahead. It's about healing, isn't it?
Windhorse said:
I know some VERY arrogant doctors and i deslike them greatly. But you cannot judge the whole from a little part. I know many doctors whose the greatest sadnes sis to realize they don't have the cure nor the answers for everything. When my mother is going to tell a 25 years old person she's taken by cancer and has very little survival chances (there's a point cancer cannot be cured anymore), she does is with great sadness. I know, because she feels bad for that for many days...but that's her job. There's no arrogance in it...it's when the medicine lowers it's head and says "i'm sorry". I don't think Western Medical practice is as bad as you put it...it has it's bad sides, yes, and here in Brazil i can assure you it's far from perfect. But, like PlatinumDove said, they do care about the patients...their interest is to save lifes, to heal. To help the way they can. And to recognize when they cannot do anything any longer. That's why they study so much.
Please, don't take this as harsh...it's just my view. I don't think throwing rocks on the Western Medicine is nice, as much as alternative ways are every interesting and natural (i too like them) and seem to work well.
Windhorse said:
I don't know any doctor who deny the tests results to any patient...but what you said is a good advice. If you you are not sure, look for another doctor. Find out what is wrong. When you are sad, you can get happy...when you are having money problem, there's always a way of turning the tables...but when it's health problem, things get much more complicated.
Windhorse said:
If you are talking about the medicines, i feel once more the need to comment. I know, i'm annoying...sorry about this. No doctor i know considers medicines (*medicines* not protein/herb pills and the like) healthy. They are taken in case of a health problem....taking medicines for nothing is unhealthy. And i know doctors who even advice some natural methods like tea (my mom's doctor told her to drink prune [dried plum] tea for constipation when pregnant).
What they say is healthy is to eat healthy things, to do exercises and regular check ups when you become older...even to smile and relax they recommend...and the like. Most don't tell you to hurry to the drug store. Of course, there are always the drug-maniac doctors but i don't believe it's a majority (not at least here).
When a person needs a medicine to live (like, pills for depression), it's because she/he is not healthy. And it's not the doctor's fault.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but i really needed to share my opinion. I don't want to change your mind or to start a fight...just offer you another view.
I'll stop because i became really off-topic here. Sorry.
YukoWindhorse
PlatinumDove said:
Good for you PD. I applaud your staunch defence of laboratory testing.
But I too beg to differ...
I have visited your country. I would find it hard to say that 95% of your population ARE healthy. If the population of your testing are unhealthy, then the ranges will express this, no? Thats just logical.
Now me saying that the vast majority of your population is unhealthy - thats a contentious issue I agree.
But given the amount of abuse that all our respective nations are doing to our soils (other than the very very few pockets of organic and biodynamic agriculture), I would find it very difficult to believe the general standard of health of anyone in the world is 'normal'. Mineral and nutrition levels being deficient in soils is well known - and the flow on effect to ourselves from the food we eat is obvious.... well it is to me anyhow; but then again, I do make a point of reading up on this stuff. Its an obligation for me, given I do have a responsibility to the clients who come and see me to assist them with their health...
I guess I do have a problem with the Western Medical system because it reflects the Western way of dealing with problems: you either cut it out, poison it, kill it or destroy it.
Maybe its just me, but how about looking at health (not illness) from the traditional chinese medicine point of view? The body in its natural state is like a harmonious garden, the healer is merely the gardener who tends the garden. If I see weeds in my garden I pull them out - but the Western way involves spraying chemicals that kill the weeds and spread toxic poisons into our soils and water tables.
The parallels and metaphors are deliberate on my behalf.
But yes, this conversation has gone off topic somewhat....
My intention was merely to tell my fellow Taroists to have some faith in their own intuition and abilities as healers. But again, perhaps my own experiences differ from those of you from other countries. In this little corner of the world, Tarot cards are wielded by individuals with amazing and unique talents of intuition and empathy. As I said, I haven't met a 'Tarot Reader' that wasn't also an incredible healer in their own right. Perhaps I take things for granted here... the lucky country indeed....
So for all you budding tarot enthusiasts who are also staunch defenders of the Western Medical System, please accept my humble apologies. But I will stand by my statement that the vast majority of the world's population (especially those of us in affluent 1st-world nations) are by and large UNhealthy. But then, by definition, that is 'normal' isn't it?!?!.....
...."ooohhh, and it makes me wonder...."
LOL
There is something I'd like to share further on this, but it keeps this conversation digressing along a path inappropriate.
But I will add this - 50% of a "health" reading is done by interpreting cards; the other 50% is done by talking and visually examining the person; asking them about their 'medical' history; doing a few 'tests' like checking pulses, tongue, eyes, etc etc.... For those of us who are practitioners of natural/holistic/alternative health systems, this is normal procedure.
I don't believe that there are specific cards that are associated with 'health' or 'illness' per se, but if that is the focus of your reading then that information is there. It comes down to how each of us as readers work too, and for those who don't touch 'health readings' with a 10-foot pole then of course, by all means, refer them to a health professional. I guess I would just like to see preventative and traditional medicines get more credit from the wider population instead of opting for the 'devil you know'.
At the end of the day, our health should be our own personal responsibility, and handing that over to a 'professional' be it conventional or alternative doesn't assist us in our healing.
I endeavour to dig up some recommended texts for you, other than the two on chinese medicine i already mentioned...
mitakuye oyasin
P
Windhorse
Sorry me again.
Just need to clarify something. Reading back over this thread I have seen why Platinum Dove objected to what I said.
Here's a little background to what I said about 'normal' ranges of levels of various bodily fluids, etc. Ignore this if you are only interested in health indicators in the tarot cards.... if you are generally interested in health, please read on....
It is a well known fact (well, maybe not well-known amongst the general population, but certainly amongst those who are interested by such facts) that Australians are by-and-large vastly deficient in Copper - and this is due to the fact that our soil here is NATURALLY deficient in that necessary mineral. Humans aren't to blame for this, its just a geological fact. We're not talking about concentrated deposits of minerals, but of trace minerals in the soils we use to grow foods. Now this deficiency is also noticable in livestock. So famers and growers alike have to include supplements of copper into feeds and into the soils. There are various ways this can be done, some harmless, others less so.
Now - being that Australians are generally copper-deficient, any test ranges based upon a deficient population will produce a lower range than those based on a population where levels of this trace mineral are 'normal' (I understand the relativity of this word, but I think you get what I mean...).
Of course, Doctors here dispute that these ranges are low.
So it is a matter or opinion, yes.
So a GP here may say that the levels of Copper in your body is 'normal'. And a naturopath may say so too.... but if the levels are on the lower end of 'normal' then we would say that there is a deficiency and the levels needs to be boosted; even though they are in the 'safe' range, this range is based on averages taken from an already deficient population.
Is this making any sense?
Anyway, this isn't the place to discuss mineralisation, but I thought I would just clarify this point. I'm sure our relative PlatinumDove will dispute this being a lab technician coming from a strong family tradition of lab technicians, and of course I welcome this whole-heartedly, as I daresay he/she has something valuable to share that I will learn from and be able to be of further assistance to my clients.
I know there is a spoken-word lecture floating around called "Dead Doctors Don't Lie".... the 'author's name eludes me presently, but if you trawl amazon or ebay or napster for it, you'll find it. It is a very interesting lecture; strongly recommend it as an introduction into all of this.
mitakuye oyasin
Pxoxo
Just need to clarify something. Reading back over this thread I have seen why Platinum Dove objected to what I said.
Here's a little background to what I said about 'normal' ranges of levels of various bodily fluids, etc. Ignore this if you are only interested in health indicators in the tarot cards.... if you are generally interested in health, please read on....
It is a well known fact (well, maybe not well-known amongst the general population, but certainly amongst those who are interested by such facts) that Australians are by-and-large vastly deficient in Copper - and this is due to the fact that our soil here is NATURALLY deficient in that necessary mineral. Humans aren't to blame for this, its just a geological fact. We're not talking about concentrated deposits of minerals, but of trace minerals in the soils we use to grow foods. Now this deficiency is also noticable in livestock. So famers and growers alike have to include supplements of copper into feeds and into the soils. There are various ways this can be done, some harmless, others less so.
Now - being that Australians are generally copper-deficient, any test ranges based upon a deficient population will produce a lower range than those based on a population where levels of this trace mineral are 'normal' (I understand the relativity of this word, but I think you get what I mean...).
Of course, Doctors here dispute that these ranges are low.
So it is a matter or opinion, yes.
So a GP here may say that the levels of Copper in your body is 'normal'. And a naturopath may say so too.... but if the levels are on the lower end of 'normal' then we would say that there is a deficiency and the levels needs to be boosted; even though they are in the 'safe' range, this range is based on averages taken from an already deficient population.
Is this making any sense?
Anyway, this isn't the place to discuss mineralisation, but I thought I would just clarify this point. I'm sure our relative PlatinumDove will dispute this being a lab technician coming from a strong family tradition of lab technicians, and of course I welcome this whole-heartedly, as I daresay he/she has something valuable to share that I will learn from and be able to be of further assistance to my clients.
I know there is a spoken-word lecture floating around called "Dead Doctors Don't Lie".... the 'author's name eludes me presently, but if you trawl amazon or ebay or napster for it, you'll find it. It is a very interesting lecture; strongly recommend it as an introduction into all of this.
mitakuye oyasin
Pxoxo
