Grand Cross

gongfy

Grand Fixed Cross

I saw this post and I have a grand fixed cross in my natal chart, as well as a mystic rectangle. I wish that I could say that these have been easy and rewarding aspects - but that wouldn't be accurate. Although my collective experiences have been exceedingly difficult - they are a part of who I am. I am now at a stage where I am finally learning to integrate these energies, but it has taken a lifetime.
 

IHeartRescues

Since this has been brought up

...deleted...
 

CosmicBeing

I think a Grand cross is just one piece...I think it matters on the whole chart. Grand cross is stressful, but if you have it in your chart to be able to move and deal with it. I think it could be fine.

Cardinal, mutable, fixed are all okay. There are very successful people a cardinal cross, mutable cross, and fixed cross.

http://memphisastrology.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-grand-cross-and-fate-vs-free-will.html

thought this was a well put out blog post.
 

CosmicBeing

gongfy said:
I saw this post and I have a grand fixed cross in my natal chart, as well as a mystic rectangle. I wish that I could say that these have been easy and rewarding aspects - but that wouldn't be accurate. Although my collective experiences have been exceedingly difficult - they are a part of who I am. I am now at a stage where I am finally learning to integrate these energies, but it has taken a lifetime.
Click to expand...

I have a mystic rectangle in my chart... my astrology just says that fate takes you in and out of a situation that is no longer for your highest good. It is stressful dealing with sudden changes. But, it is just fate trying to put you on the right path when you might want to go on a different path that is not truly for you.

My whole chart is all about suddenness. Both in western astrology and vedic astrology.

They also say the most successful people have a grand cross because if they have patience, diligence, and don't let it get in their way. That the universe rewards them highly.

I think the rest of the chart still have to be viewed to understand how you may be handling it that could cause more stress.
 

gongfy

@IHeartRescues

I am new on this forum, so my apologies if I am not posting this reply correctly. And no - I am not violent. I do have an exact conjunction of Mars and Uranus (not a part of the square) that gives me a quick temper - but I am more prone to mouthing off than committing acts of violence. For me, the grand fixed cross has been more about learning lessons about balance and in persevering through considerable life obstacles. Some obstacles have been made worse through a "fixed" or stubborn attitude; a streak of independence that is both a blessing and a curse. I am a gemini, gemini rising and my grand fixed square looks like this: Moon in Leo (1) in the First House, in opposition to Jupiter in Aquarius (6) in the 9th House (Saturn in Capricorn (28) in the 8th House is also conjunct Jupiter); Neptune in Scorpio (8) in the 6th House in opposition to Venus in Taurus (9) in the 12th House. The square is formed as follows:
Venus is square Jupiter
Jupiter is square Neptune
Neptune is square the Moon
Moon is square Venus
 

RohanMenon

I thought parans were about mundane

squares and oppositions and not zodiacal at all. i.e you could have parans without the planets forming a square or opposition in the natal chart (which being zodiacal is about longitudes on the celestial sphere)

in other words I thought parans were about two planets being simultaneously on horizon, zenith, and/or nadir. Moon rises, while Mars culminates for example, not necessarily at the exact time for which the chart is drawn. The Mundane Siderial times for these positions, if within 4 minutes show a (mundane) paran.

Still learning, so could be wrong on all the above, in which case corrections appreciated.
 

IHeartRescues

@gongfy

gongfy said:
I am new on this forum, so my apologies if I am not posting this reply correctly. And no - I am not violent. I do have an exact conjunction of Mars and Uranus (not a part of the square) that gives me a quick temper - but I am more prone to mouthing off than committing acts of violence. For me, the grand fixed cross has been more about learning lessons about balance and in persevering through considerable life obstacles. Some obstacles have been made worse through a "fixed" or stubborn attitude; a streak of independence that is both a blessing and a curse. I am a gemini, gemini rising and my grand fixed square looks like this: Moon in Leo (1) in the First House, in opposition to Jupiter in Aquarius (6) in the 9th House (Saturn in Capricorn (28) in the 8th House is also conjunct Jupiter); Neptune in Scorpio (8) in the 6th House in opposition to Venus in Taurus (9) in the 12th House. The square is formed as follows:
Venus is square Jupiter
Jupiter is square Neptune
Neptune is square the Moon
Moon is square Venus
Click to expand...

Hi gongfy :) First of, I am no astrologer so I will leave it to OP to consider the aspects in your chart.
And I shared what I did in fair amt of detail bc it was done w anonymity. I think perhaps just laying it out there, warts and all, could add a layer to the Grand Cross consideration? My astrologer said a lot of things in that long-ago conversation, but mr GC ended up ruining the tape :/. This was the only time I had heard mention of this aspect in relation to real life, but thought it interesting that much of my old loves' story seemed to align very much w the info in CB's link (I found CosmicBeing's link very enlightening. Did you read it also?)
I know what it's like to come into this world w a challenging natal chart (mine is shaped like a basket w my Moon at the top!) and am working out those issues to this day. Perseverance combined w relaxation techniques and a deep sense of humor/irony, seem to be a good recipe. But STILL haven't figured out whether being mouthy is good thing or not! lol
And btw welcome to the Aeclectic Forum!

IHR
 

Ruby Jewel

Kibeth said:
Hi all,

The Grand Cross has fascinated me for a long time now. I don't know anyone with this in their chart yet, but I do know a forum-er with the GC if you include the Ascendant. I'd like everyone to share their ideas and will include her chart (or Himmler's) for study if we get responses.

According to Wikipedia:

In astrology, a Grand Cross is said to occur when four planets are all separated from each other by Square aspects (90 degrees apart). A Grand Cross can also be viewed as two oppositions (180 degrees apart) separated from each other by a square. In a Grand Cross, there is one planet in each astrological element (fire, earth, air and water) but all the planets are in signs of the same modality or quality. He was a phenomenal human being, although I am quite certain he was schizophrenic....not certified, just my opinion....brilliant, generous in the extreme, a ladies man all the way, but none could hold him. The alcohol didn't win until the end because he was a very strong personality.

1) Can the Grand Cross include the Ascendant, or is this strictly "planets only"?

On one hand, the Ascendant is simply a point in the sky, that if we include the Asc we should include the North Node, South Node, and everything else which makes for a complicated chart.

On the other hand the Asc is, in the view of traditional astrology, more important than the Sun itself. I'm too split on this issue.

What do you think?

2) What are traditional views of this configuration? Heroes? Villains? Heinrich Himmler has this in his chart.

Before you cry out villain! I've actually questioned his morality for a while in a history book years ago.

3) The Grand Cross is a pretty rare. Do you know anyone's charts with the GC? What was he or she (or you) like? We could study his or her chart.
Click to expand...

I had a friend who had this configuration in his chart. It is not something you want, believe me. Without an open end on the cross, there is no out. I knew him for 30 years, knowing that one day tragedy would strike. It did. He finally gave up and committed suicide in 2011. As a Pisces, he was an alcoholic but it didn't really beat him until the end. He was very strong. His was in fixed signs of Scorpio, Taurus, Leo, and Aquarius. If one of the ends is open, the person has an escape route, so having all closed, especially in fixed signs, is quite a tragedy in my estimation. He was brilliant, and I believe he was schizophrenic, but that was just my opinion. I knew him quite well. We were roommates in NYC for 10 years and he followed me everywhere for the next 20. He was a beautiful person, generous in the extreme....tragic in every respect. He was a very unique individual....loved by everyone who met him....especially by women whom he put on a pedestal.
 
Horary Chart reading What do you do with the 13th sign in astrology?