Golden Dawn Ritual Tarot/Cicero

earthair

As some people know, I'm studying things GD, astrological, magickal and symbolical at the moment ... and I have a few questions about this book so far-

On page 21 it says Aleph has the musical note E ascribed to it- but I all the Google searches I found seem to agree it's a D. :confused:
Could only find this to support it > http://solascendans.com/2011/12/23/music-in-theory-and-practice-part-1/

Page 26 (top) says Wands correspond to Diamonds...and Pentacles to Clubs. :confused: Really?

Page 227- I always (wrongly it seems!) thought that the OotK spread was what this book calls the 15 card spread, but if it's not, then what is that 15 card spread really called?

Page 229- if significators are supposed to look in a left/right direction, then why didn't they paint them doing this when they created the accompanying deck?
 

rwcarter

Page 227- I always (wrongly it seems!) thought that the OotK spread was what this book calls the 15 card spread, but if it's not, then what is that 15 card spread really called?
The 15 Card Spread. Seriously. When I first ran across that spread 20+ years ago, it was called "The 15 Card Spread" or "The Fifteen Card Spread". I don't think I've ever seen it called anything else.

Page 229- if significators are supposed to look in a left/right direction, then why didn't they paint them doing this when they created the accompanying deck?
In my version of the book, it says right after that
{Note: in the New Golden Dawn Ritual Tarot deck, the directions that the Courts cards are facing are not always apparent. As a rule of thumb, Kings turn left, Queens face right, Princes turn left, and Princesses face right....}
Why aren't the cards in their deck painted the way they're described? Artistic license?
 

Barleywine

Page 227- I always (wrongly it seems!) thought that the OotK spread was what this book calls the 15 card spread, but if it's not, then what is that 15 card spread really called?

The diagram of the 15 Card Spread on page 225 is the same as the one in Jana Riley's 1992 book, The Tarot Book; she calls it "The Gypsy Spread" and says it came from Marthy Jones' It's In The Cards, (Samual Weiser, 1984).
Neither of these sources is referenced in the Cicero book's bibliography.
 

rwcarter

The diagram of the 15 Card Spread on page 225 is the same as the one in Jana Riley's 1992 book, The Tarot Book; she calls it "The Gypsy Spread" and says it came from Marthy Jones' It's In The Cards, (Samual Weiser, 1984).
Neither of these sources is referenced in the Cicero book's bibliography.
Oooo! Now that you say that I do remember it also being called the Gypsy Spread!
 

JackofWands

On page 21 it says Aleph has the musical note E ascribed to it- but I all the Google searches I found seem to agree it's a D. :confused:
Could only find this to support it > http://solascendans.com/2011/12/23/music-in-theory-and-practice-part-1/

Referring to this archived thread and this blog post, which assign Aleph to E.

As I understand it, the musical correspondences are derived from the color correspondences for the Majors' paths on the Tree of Life. I found this source very helpful and convincing in explaining the correlation (assigning musical notes to color frequencies based off of the work of Edward Maryon).

The colors themselves are derived from the Rosy Cross, with the assignation of the Hebrew letters based on the divisions in the Sepher Yetzirah. Thus, the yellow letters (Aleph, Bet, and Tet) are assigned to E, the blue letters (Mem, Gimel, and Samech) to G#, and the red letters (Shin, Pe, and He) to C. You fill in the other letters based on where they fall color-wise and using the twelve-tone scale of Western music.

Hope this helps!
 

earthair

Referring to this archived thread and this blog post, which assign Aleph to E.

As I understand it, the musical correspondences are derived from the color correspondences for the Majors' paths on the Tree of Life. I found this source very helpful and convincing in explaining the correlation (assigning musical notes to color frequencies based off of the work of Edward Maryon).

The colors themselves are derived from the Rosy Cross, with the assignation of the Hebrew letters based on the divisions in the Sepher Yetzirah. Thus, the yellow letters (Aleph, Bet, and Tet) are assigned to E, the blue letters (Mem, Gimel, and Samech) to G#, and the red letters (Shin, Pe, and He) to C. You fill in the other letters based on where they fall color-wise and using the twelve-tone scale of Western music.

Hope this helps!

Yes it does :) Thank you. Case obviously didn't have chromesthesia. *shudders at the attributions*
 

JackofWands

Yes it does :) Thank you. Case obviously didn't have chromesthesia. *shudders at the attributions*

Yeah, I'm personally not a huge fan of the whole "G# is blue" thing. But at least the system is internally consistent--the three primary colors are each separated by a major third.
 

Essence of Winter

How do you find the book so far? I haven't started on it yet as I am currently working my way through the accompanying book for the Tarot of the Sephiroth but I have used the deck a couple of times.

I believe some of the colour and musical attributions are a more recent development and were not originally part of the Golden Dawn teachings.
 

Samweiss

On page 21 it says Aleph has the musical note E ascribed to it- but I all the Google searches I found seem to agree it's a D. :confused:
Could only find this to support it > http://solascendans.com/2011/12/23/music-in-theory-and-practice-part-1/

I have just started working with sounds and color and I haven't seen anyone linking Aleph with D, what are your sources?

This quote is from the book "Western Mandalas of Transformation" by Soror A.L.

The reason that some of
the tones differ from those given in other esoteric schools—particular prior to the 20th
century—is that international pitch has displaced the earlier use of concert pitch.
What used to be called concert pitch was not a sufficient enough standard for musical
pitch because it varied too much from place to place. Sometimes old organs in Europe
differed from one another by several semitones. According to the pitch used then (prior
to the standardization of international pitch), the note marked middle C on our scale gave
forth the sound we now call C sharp. In other words, the pitch has risen over time.

Those older esoteric schools she is referring are mostly Theosophic origin, but I'm not a musician so I'm not very knowledgeable about these things, perhaps this could explain the difference.
 

earthair

How do you find the book so far? I haven't started on it yet as I am currently working my way through the accompanying book for the Tarot of the Sephiroth but I have used the deck a couple of times.

Enjoying it :) It's very readable, packed with useful information and well laid out...but not quite as comprehensive as the Regardie big GD book which I'm using alongside it.

I can't read with the Sephiroth deck, and although I do enjoy looking through the artwork and playing about with the paths and layouts, it doesn't really 'fit' as I presume it was meant too because of the different size sephirot, and the book is too waffley, so they both stay in their box alas :(

I believe some of the colour and musical attributions are a more recent development and were not originally part of the Golden Dawn teachings.

I thought the colour scales were as taken from the GD 5th Knowledge Lecture?:confused: