Collaborative Spread Creation #1 - Double Arch of Insight

Lilija

Glass Owl, that extra line of questioning would be good, making things even more specific. I found that those questions were answered, more in the nature of the spread. They would be good additions, though, I think.

As far as a layout, I just laid them out all in a row. It's funny, because it felt like a whole series of one-card draws, question-pull card, wash-rinse-repeat. In that way, I truly felt the unfinishedness of the spread. A good spread would add to the overall cohesiveness, I'm sure.

As I was lying them out, I thought the first question would be a great center anchor for the rest of the questions, with the questions about X radiating out from one side, and the questions about the querant out from the other. I might be biased, though, because I favor circular, or square spreads, focused around a single card.
 

rwcarter

Glass Owl,

Sorry I missed your additional questions the first time around as needing to be added to the master list of questions.

Lilija,

I also tend to favor spreads the emanate out from a central point (when it makes sense, of course).

If there's consensus that we've covered the necessary positions, I'm happy to move onto the layout.

Rodney
 

Melvis

What a great idea, Rodney! If I may add to the discussion...

Coming up with a layout might be easier if you set out the positions that seem to be pairs:

X's Private Face in the situation
X's Public Face in the situation

X's short term reaction to Q's help
X's long term reaction to Q's help

What Q should do
What Q shouldn't do

Role X expects Q to play
Role Q should play

The last one might not be as obvious a pair, but it allows there to be two pairs 'about' X and two pairs 'about' Q.

Just something I noticed, so I thought it might help the positions make some visual sense.

Peace,

Melvis
:TSTRE
 

rwcarter

Thanks for joining in Melvis. Pairing similar positions in the spread makes a lot of sense.

Rodney
 

Glass Owl

I'd really love to see what others have come up using the ideas that were presented in this thread so please share away!

Feel free to play around with what I came up with today or just discard it and come up with something totally different.

I really liked the idea of pairs too and then as I was going through the list I found myself grouping them into threes... and then I realized I had also broken them into categories.

Try as I might but I couldn't break myself away from these categories. So after a bit of brainstorming I wrote out a layout and began a reading. I quickly found that the spread just flowed and two addition card positions sprang out of it.

-------------09--------------
-----07------------08-------
-----------------------------
------------ 04--------------
01--------------------13&14
----------------------------
02----------05--------11&12
-----------------------------
03----------06----------10--

(although in retrospect I believe the layout should be tweaked to the following)

-------------09-------------
-----07------------08-------
-----------------------------
------------ 04--------------
01----------------------10--
----------------------------
02----------05--------11&12
-----------------------------
03----------06--------13&14


Backstory: What Q should know about his/her relationship with X...
1. Current energy between Q and X
2. What X brings to the relationship
3. What Q brings to the relationship

What Q should know about X...
4. X's current situation/issue
5. X's private face regarding card 4
6. X's public face regarding card 4

What Q should know regarding the facts presented in cards 4-6...
7. X's probable reaction (at this time) to Q knowing about situation and/or
getting involved
8. Effect Q's involvement or approaching X about situation would have on relationship
9. Effect Q's involvement or approaching X about situation would have on situation

Advice for Q: What Q can do to help X
10. Role Q should play
11. What Q shouldn't do /12. Why this would be ineffective or make things worse
13. What Q should do/14. Why this would be beneficial

The reading that I did this, well, it was very revealing and sobering. I'm still a bit shaken by it actually.
 

Glass Owl

UPDATE: Well, I have my cards all laid out (I even moved them around to the second layout) and my young child comes up and *decides* that there needs to be a card beside position 10.

I figure that since she is always asking "why" that this seems appropriate. So I fanned the cards and let her pick the card that should go there.

So here is a modified version of the spread that I just posted :)

-------------09---------------
-----07------------08--------
-------------------------------
------------ 04---------------
01---------------------10&11
-------------------------------
02----------05--------12&13
-------------------------------
03----------06--------14&15


Backstory: What Q should know about his/her relationship with X...
1. Current energy between Q and X
2. What X brings to the relationship
3. What Q brings to the relationship

What Q should know about X...
4. X's current situation/issue
5. X's private face regarding card 4
6. X's public face regarding card 4

What Q should know regarding the facts presented in cards 4-6...
7. X's probable reaction (at this time) to Q knowing about situation and/or
getting involved
8. Effect Q's involvement or approaching X about situation would have on relationship
9. Effect Q's involvement or approaching X about situation would have on situation

Advice for Q: What Q can do to help X
10. Role Q should play / 11. Why? (maybe this points to Q's motives?)
12. What Q shouldn't do /13. Why this would be ineffective or make things worse
14. What Q should do/15. Why this would be beneficial
 

rwcarter

Glass Owl,

Let me digest your two posts overnight. I've added the additional positions to the first post (and made that post readable since vb code isn't working right now) and now have to see how I want to lay out the positions and/or how I feel about your layouts. Was hoping to get to it tonight, but the puppy wanted to play (and still does) and she owns me of course.... ;)

Rodney
 

rwcarter

Glass Owl,

I missed that you changed/added some positions. Without looking at your layouts in any depth, I printed off the positions that I had listed and tallied them into 3 columns - Querent, Friend and Both. 8 of the positions were about the Querent, 7 were about the Friend and 1 was about both of them. For a spread that started out to be about "What can I do for X at this point in their life?", it was turning into a spread more about the Querent than the Friend. That just didn't seem right.

So I looked at your first layout and noticed some of your positions are different.

So you've jettisoned the following:
  • what you should know about X's situation/where X is in their life
  • what you can do to help X
  • how you should approach X with your new knowledge
  • X's long-term reaction to your help
  • Querent's motive for wanting to get involved
  • what role X expects Querent to play in the situation

And you've added:
  • effect of Querent getting involved on relationship with X
  • effect of Querent getting involved on situation
  • what Querent should do (actually a rewording of "what you can do to help X")
  • why this would help
  • what Querent shouldn't do or say
  • why it may make the situation worse (last two are actually a previous position broken into two parts)

"What you should know about X's situation/where X is in their life" is probably redundant to "the situation X currently finds themselves in/where X currently is in their life." My original intent was to differentiate what's going on with X from the specific part of that experience that the Querent needs to be aware of in order to help. But I can see jettisoning the first position listed.

I think I'm going to fight for the "how you should approach X with your new knowledge" position (although I think it needs to be renamed). Some people you can approach directly, some people you have to beat around the bush with, some situations you can just be blunt about and some situations you have to tiptoe around. That info isn't expressly addressed in the positions in your layout, although one might be able to glean that info from the difference between X's public and private faces about what's going on.

You've kept the short-term reaction but discarded the long term reaction to the Querent getting involved. I don't really have any problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with getting rid of the position for "what role X expects Querent to play in the situation."

Gotta chew on this some more, especially since it's time for me to start getting ready for bed.

Rodney
 

Glass Owl

rwcarter said:
I think I'm going to fight for the "how you should approach X with your new knowledge" position (although I think it needs to be renamed). Some people you can approach directly, some people you have to beat around the bush with, some situations you can just be blunt about and some situations you have to tiptoe around. That info isn't expressly addressed in the positions in your layout, although one might be able to glean that info from the difference between X's public and private faces about what's going on.
I had that line in but it just didn't seem to fit at the time. But I'm sure that it could be worked in there somewhere. Overall, I think that a person could probably get that information after looking at what their role should be (now they have all of these facts to work with), combined with what you should do/not do and why these two things are important.

As for my sample reading, when I laid down the three cards on top it was made very clear that (under the present circumstances) I shouldn't address this situation with X at all.

If the cards in those three top positions had been more positive and encouraging for addressing the situaion directly with X, then I would have looked at the later cards (found on the right side of the layout) for guidance on how to do that.

In my sample reading, this spread highlighted something that X REALLY doesn't want to talk about. It is a secret... maybe even to himself to some extent. The cards clearly told me that it wouldn't matter (at this time) how I approach/address X's situation with X because the fact is that nothing could be said that would improve the situation or help my friend. (Very depressing information, but it is what it is.) In fact, it would hurt my friend and damage our relationship. Heck, it would probably hurt me too to see such a bad reaction (perhaps even a denial of the problem) on his part.

In a nutshell, I would say that if you use the layout and questions I did, you should be prepared for a possibly hard-hitting result.

So you may be asking (as did I) the following question: "Why did the Tarot, through the use of this spread, reveal this touchy information about X to the Q?" Here is what I came up with after much thought.

--I'm sure that there are other issues in X's life but I think that this particular one was highlighted because it is something that I can do something about.

--Because I asked how to help X and to do that I needed to know what is going on otherwise I'm just stumbling in the dark without a flashlight.

--In this particular case, I'm the one that needs to know what it is going on (even if X doesn't feel that way) because I'm actually the source of this problem and I'm doing things that are adding fuel to the fire so to speak. Not a fun revelation, by the way, to know that you are causing such a problem for a friend that you really care about :(

--To warn me that verbally addressing this situation with X (at this time) would have a very negative reaction on X

--To give me guidance (the blunt, direct, in your face kind) of what I should be doing/ not doing to help my friend and the situation at hand (besides keeping my mouth shut.)

rwcarter said:
For a spread that started out to be about "What can I do for X at this point in their life?", it was turning into a spread more about the Querent than the Friend.
I actually found out a lot about my friend from this reading (perhaps too much!) Plus, it also forced me to put a mirror up and to examine my motives, plus what I am doing and thinking.

But the bottom line is that this reading really hit home for me these things:
1. As much I want to help my friend, I can't change my friend's thoughts, feelings, behaviors, or reactions. I can only control/change myself.
2. My choices and actions have consequences, not just for me but for others as well.
3. “It is difficult to say who do you the most harm: enemies with the worst intentions or friends with the best.” -Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton
4. Truly helping a friend may mean making some tough sacrifices.
 

rwcarter

Glass Owl said:
I had that line in but it just didn't seem to fit at the time. But I'm sure that it could be worked in there somewhere. Overall, I think that a person could probably get that information after looking at what their role should be (now they have all of these facts to work with), combined with what you should do/not do and why these two things are important.
I guess I have to give you that one.

Is there any significance to the shape of the layout you came up with? It kinda looks like a fancy double arch to me. The only thing I would change is that it seems rather heavy on one side. What do you think about this?

----------12&13-------------
---10&11--------14&15------
-----------------------------
01----------04----------07---
-----------------------------
02----------05----------08---
-----------------------------
03----------06----------09---

Now that seems top-heavy. I was going to put 10-15 as the central column of the double arch, but then I realized that you put the position for the friend's current situation as the center of the spread, so I didn't want to mess with that.

But what I like about that layout is that the the first 9 positions seem to flow from cards about the friendship to cards about what's going on in the friend's life to cards about the effect of the Querent getting involved.

So how about this instead?

------------10&11---------------
----------------------------------
----12----13------14----15-------
----------------------------------
01------------04------------07---
---------------------------------
02------------05------------08---
---------------------------------
03------------06------------09---

It keeps the double arch feel but distributes some of that heaviness at the top of the spread. This way the Querent's role is at the top of the spread, what the Querent shouldn't do is to the left and what the Querent should do is to the right.

Rodney