An Historical Oddity?

Barleywine

In systematically going through the Hadar TdM I recently bought, I noticed that the "Vaslet de Deniers" (Hadar's wording) has no title anywhere on the card. I looked at my other TdM decks and found that all of the them have "Valet de Deniers" printed on the background at the side of the image rather than in the border at the bottom like the other court cards. I went to check other TdM versions on the albideuter website and discovered that only the Burdel has no title anywhere on the Valet de Deniers; the rest have it printed at the side (other than the German decks which locate it in the bottom border). The Hadar doesn't appear to be a direct Burdel reproduction, other than in this one specific. I didn't see anything on Hadar's website about the historical origins for his deck.

Can anyone shed any light on this?
 

Barleywine

Others also have wondered about the Hadar. For example:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=21791

Thanks, Richard. Kris Hadar's replies were especially interesting. I've been struggling through the LWB with my rusty French, and here is the entire time-line already translated for me! :thumbsup: I didn't find a direct answer to my specific question, but at least a workable rationale.
 

Philippe

I think the Hadar is mainly a recolouring of the Grimaud (the most common TdM) with here and there some details taken from historical decks.

For instance the Payen devil's belly and knees :

hada2 by PhilBeDaN, sur Flickr From L to R : Hadar Marteau Payen Conver

or the spelling of L'Estoille (in fact LESTOILLE) taken once more from Payen :

Hada by PhilBeDaN, sur Flickr
 

Barleywine

I think the Hadar is mainly a recolouring of the Grimaud (the most common TdM) with here and there some details taken from historical decks.

For instance the Payen devil's belly and knees :

hada2 by PhilBeDaN, sur Flickr From L to R : Hadar Marteau Payen Conver

or the spelling of L'Estoille (in fact LESTOILLE) taken once more from Payen :

Hada by PhilBeDaN, sur Flickr

I pulled up the Grimaud and Burdel Valet de Deniers from albideuter; it looks like Hadar did some redesign as well as recoloring. The Grimaud card has the title along the right side, while Hadar's has no title on it. I read somewhere that the Hadar deck is an amalgam drawn from different sources. My question as to why the title was dropped from the Hadar (and also the Burdel) Valet de Deniers goes unanswered.
 

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teomat

Not sure about the Hadar, but I'm guessing that the original Burdel does have the side title. The albideuter site seems to be displaying the Lo Scarabeo Burdel, and it's therefore likely that LS removed it (for consistency with all the other titled cards having the multi-language bars).

Perhaps the owner of this site (which has a 'true' copy of the original Burdel) might be able to confirm if the Valet has the side title?:

http://tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/english/catalogue_burdel1751.html
 

Philippe

But it's not the Burdel you are showing us. It's a Lo Scarabeo TdM. On the real Claude (or here Jacques) Burdel the valet de deniers goes with his name.

burde by PhilBeDaN, sur Flickr

Maybe we can infer that it's Hadar's personal choice to let him without title
 

Barleywine

But it's not the Burdel you are showing us. It's a Lo Scarabeo TdM. On the real Claude Burdel the valet de deniers goes with his name.

Maybe we can infer that it's Hadar's personal choice to let him without title

Interesting! Albideuter has two decks, the "Marseille Burdel" (which I posted here) and the "Universal Burdel." Neither one shows the title, but the latter has more vibrant colors. Looks like I need a better source for comparison.