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Can Tarot really foretell the Future ?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Then I guess you won't be either way. It is a question of subjective belief, even ravenest's so-called mocking. You will never get definitive proof either way, which it seems is what you are looking for.
I didn't expect definitive proof of anything....just alternative views that I might find convincing....
Top   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ana luisa View Post
Just adding a different perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrqmMoI0wks
I didn't manage to watch the video-yet- but I am familiar with this theory. And I find it very convincing, in fact, I've Always thought that explained why tarot can see the future....
Top   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
Well, ravenest can ridicule your explanation as much as he/she likes, placebo
Excuse me .... I was pointing out the subversive and near evil intent of the forces that seem to have 'possessed' PS due to his own confession of " This can be blamed on whatever forces I have managed to antagonize while winding my way on my spiritual path."

It was the content and the problem I was , frankly, shocked to read, that that dynamic is out there with readers and passed so blaze like here ... it isnt ridicule ... it is primarily CONCERN !

I mean , for goodness sake's .... :

" and then at the most opportune moment for maximum emotional devastation the rug will get pulled from underneath and the answer will be dramatically and destructively wrong "




Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post

, but the fact is, what you described here seems to be precisely what happens, to a lot of people I've spoken with....tarot will always get it right, until that time, when it has gained your trust, on that incredibly important occasion, when it suddenly lets you down and causes devastation....
Look ... people believe in something (that cards are always going to predict the future), which is not right. Then, when it is proved not right by even their own observation ... they get into a panic, frustration, confusion, aggression, despair, etc ... whatever ! Oh , whats happening why doesnt tarot work the way I thought it did ! The problem is with the person, not the cards or tarot itself ... it was a wrong assumption in the first place!

http://img.playground.ru/images/5/6/...ingTheoden.png

Sorry I am being so boring and repetitive, but I could say the same thing about others who just are not getting this. If it so annoying to anyone and people cant stand my input and opinions, then put me on ignore - simple.

otherwise, consider this: I throw a coin to decide things yes no ... it works well for a few days, I tell my friends about that ... the coin says - yes do that, or no dont do that and it works great! Then after a while I go to them and say :I dont know what has gone wrong ... the coins all of a sudden are giving me bad advice , why isnt it working anymore?

What would you say to them ?

The answer, as I keep saying, lies in the dynamics of probability, and if one doesnt want to know about that, then one is just stuck where they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
call it entities, call it the Devil's doing,
or call it the mathematics of probability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
like Catholics do, give a philosophical explanation or a scientific one with statistics and the laws of probabilities, but the fact remains, I've heard this story, exactly like you put it, dozens of times, and it really does seem like a perverted mechanism...
AGREED !

But as to how many this is 'happening to' I await further feedback ... it is interesting that you say : " I've heard this story, exactly like you put it," people have told you exactly that ... dozens of times ??? (your words) and the way PS exactly put it was : " I have been warned by entities that I deal with that if I ever actively pursue tarot as a public service I will have a reoccurring problem with my predictions being good until somebody comes to count upon them and then at the most opportune moment for maximum emotional devastation the rug will get pulled from underneath and the answer will be dramatically and destructively wrong. This can be blamed on whatever forces I have managed to antagonize while winding my way on my spiritual path."

Other people are EXACTLY having this experience... all over the place ? ! ? ! ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post


very dangerous...I'm sure we will never get to the bottom of this question, no matter how long this thread goes on for, the most we can do is learn to take tarot predictions with caution-more than we ever did-as a pinch of salt...
Yes, people ; dont rely on tarot to the extent that it will mess you up - we see people seeking help here all the time because of that, how some imagined process of Tarot has got into their heads and is messing them up and they ask here for help about that .

And I suppose, for some, they WILL never get to the bottom of this ... ever ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post

And even ravenest cannot be sure that the explanation for this is logical, rather than crazy or " magical "...
I am quiet capable of explaining this 'crazy' process in a detailed psychological, logical, and magical way - there is no ' rather than ' . I have been explaining some of the processes behind this type of 'magic' ... not trying to refute it with logic. However to examine it and explain it fully (to some) again would be long, complex and OT. However I am sure there are also some reading here who know exactly what I mean.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Then I guess you won't be either way. It is a question of subjective belief, even ravenest's so-called mocking. You will never get definitive proof either way, which it seems is what you are looking for.
Right.

And I am a raven * NOT a mocking-bird

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultura...ions_of_ravens
Top   #114
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Hi, Nikita. You have received several responses which include various theories. Have you drawn a conclusion/accepted anyone's proposal/suggestion/theory/answer on 1) whether or not tarot cards can predict the future and 2) the reason seasoned tarot readers who normally are good with predictions seem to fall short at times?

I am interested in reading the conclusion you've drawn or the manner in which you've processed all of the information offered. That is if you don't mind my inquiry.
Top   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
Well, ravenest can ridicule your explanation as much as he/she likes, placebo, but the fact is, what you described here seems to be precisely what happens, to a lot of people I've spoken with....tarot will always get it right, until that time, when it has gained your trust, on that incredibly important occasion, when it suddenly lets you down and causes devastation....call it entities, call it the Devil's doing, like Catholics do, give a philosophical explanation or a scientific one with statistics and the laws of probabilities, but the fact remains, I've heard this story, exactly like you put it, dozens of times, and it really does seem like a perverted mechanism... very dangerous...I'm sure we will never get to the bottom of this question, no matter how long this thread goes on for, the most we can do is learn to take tarot predictions with caution-more than we ever did-as a pinch of salt...
And even ravenest cannot be sure that the explanation for this is logical, rather than crazy or " magical "...
I can't really take umbrage at the kind of stuff I likely would have been saying as well, back in the day

Then my dogma got run over by my karma
Top   #116
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I'm a skeptic and an atheist, so if by your question you mean 'is there some unknown force that knows the future and influences the cards?' I'd have to say no. Does that stop me from doing future readings? Nope! My stance is basically that as humans we have complex minds and multifaceted lives, so in reality most cards will carry some future relevance for us. If a reading turns out to be particularly accurate it's a happy coincidence that I can feel good about, if it turns out particularly inaccurate I can just shrug it off. I'll happily do future readings for people who believe in tarot 'magic' (for lack of a better word) as well.
Top   #117
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I think this is such a complicated question.

To me, it has always been predictive and accurate or somewhat accurate. Nothing is a 100%, but you know...

I have done my share of dumb, pointless readings with equally dumb and pointless questions and they too turned out to be right. But I have also done readings where the present was all over the cards and I could not see the future at all.

I think it's also about what we don't want to see but already know. For example, If I'm not studying as much as I should and I ask the cards if I'm going to pass an important exam and the cards all come back negative, it's a negative answer and the reason is obvious. If I stay down that path for the next days and keep on not studying, the reading I did will prove accurate, won't it?

But if I look at the cards telling me no, I won't pass, but then I spend the entire week studying and I end up passing, the previous reading will end up being innacurate.

However, there are things that really do mess with my head. I recently asked the cards who was going to win the elections in my country. (I'm in NY but I'm from Brazil). I was rooting for the least favorite to win, and I asked if the public favorite would win. I got the Wheel of Fortune, The Tower and the Magician.

I looked at the cards and smiled and thought to myself that there was going to be a change and the one I was rooting for was actually going to win.

Guess what happened?
The one I wanted, the least favorite, won.

So yes, I think they can.
Top   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
The real question is the third one, the one you didn't ask....why is it that sometimes it works, other times it doesn't ?
I don't think I can really answer that in a convincing way. I have a theory about that but no real proof except, again, my own experiences.

Without going into much detail, I've found that taking a balanced approach helps, just like it does in any other sphere. When you trust Tarot, keep studying it and improving yourself without getting too self-assured and proud of your accomplishments, or without putting too much importance on your readings/making it a point that you're 'always accurate', your skills should only be improving as time goes by.

Good luck on the life-long journey!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
I didn't expect definitive proof of anything....just alternative views that I might find convincing....
I guess that what you are experiencing here is the thing called cognitive dissonance. You have a belief position that tarot cards are always right. And you have empirical evidence that even the most experienced readers have been repeatedly mislead by the cards. That produces an uneasy feeling of something being wrong. And it looks as if you want this uneasy feeling to go away without changing your view. But this is not going to happen, at least not by reading this thread. I’m just saying before I come up with more arguments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ana luisa View Post
Just adding a different perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrqmMoI0wks
The exiting thing about physics and philosophy is that relativity is only half of the story. Yes, special relativity contains strong evidence that past, present and future are all equally real. That means the future is already there and we live in a deterministic universe. Quantum physics gives strong evidence for the opposite though. There is always a large number of possible outcomes for the near future. Which one is going to happen will only be decided once the outcome has any influence on the rest of the world. Until then all the different possibilities all exist at the same time, so to speak. This describes a reality that is probabilistic in the very core of things. Conclusion: Even modern physics is entirely ambiguous about basic parameters of our understanding of reality.

It is possible though to merge both sides into a consistent world view, which is the concept of multiple universes mentioned by LRichard earlier. It implies that the entirety of possible future outcomes is real, an infinite number of universes containing every single state a universe can be in. So the entirety of the cosmos is deterministic. But from the viewpoint of a single state (our present universe) there is still no way of predicting in which of the possible future states we will end up. The reason is that we basically end up in each of the states, but each of the multiple future copies of your consciousness can only experience one future at a time. That makes our personal universe probabilistic. Weird stuff indeed, and hotly disputed. The point is that things are either probabilistic and uncertain from your perspective. Or this all doesn’t tell you anything at all about that (in case you don’t like multiple universes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Then I guess you won't be either way. It is a question of subjective belief, even ravenest's so-called mocking. You will never get definitive proof either way, which it seems is what you are looking for.
That’s basically the short version of my long rambling

Coming back to topic: do we really need an ultimate belief position? The practical experience of most of the people on ATF seems to be that reading tarot tends to be quite accurate (exciting thing for me, as I see it as a sort of “intuition booster” only), but it also tends to fail on precise questions about concrete future outcomes. The easiest thing to do would be to stop worrying about why it is what it is and just use it the way is shows to work best.

ETA: grammar
Top   #120




 

 


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