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Can Tarot really foretell the Future ?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
So, if you read for others, how do you deal with this problem ? Do you inform them that, as far as the future goes, we are only dealing with possibilities here ?
There is a difference between something that is possible and something that is probable. I talk with each querent according to my intuition, but I avoid absolutes regarding future events. If a desirable outcome is shown, I might say: "This looks good", and encourage them to further pursue their course of action (thus making the outcome even more likely!). If an outcome doesn't look so good, I will try to explore ways how they can modify it for the better.

From the onset, my readings focus rather on finding the most recommendable course for action than on predicting what is allegedly bound to happen.

"Always in motion the future is." Yoda

Quote:
Second question : are you so sure that it's what we decide to do-or not do-that influences or changes the course of events ?
What we decide to do and - I can't emphasize this enough - the attitudes that we adopt will indeed determine the course that events take to a high degree. To become more aware of how we are essentially creating our own realties and have more conscious choice regarding it, therein lies the true potential of the Tarot.
Top   #131
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There have been some very interesting thoughts about the errors of tarot so far... But this question already implies that Tarot should be right all the time. I just had this thought on the subway tonight. It will sound very theological but I can't put in into words another way.

So if we assume Tarot knows everything about the future and makes no mistakes, what does that make the Tarot? Doesn't that make the Tarot God? I think it is easily understood that a set of cards, packed in plastic is not God. 😉

Also, if we assume the Tarot has been handed down to our ancestors by the gods of ancient Egypt or some Angels, the cards still are done by human beings. They are symbols for the human mind to understand, and the human mind will never understand everything.

And if Tarot is Magic... well Magic won't be almighty or all-knowing, would it? Magic, too is just a tool to be handled with care.

I know these arguments go back to my first post in some points, but I feel they express my thoughts much better this way.

And to cheer you up again nikita_:
To predict the future for others should be your choice. Maybe Tarot can't predict the future but we can do so with the Tarot. Even if we fail sometimes and even if we recognize only afterwards sometimes. I can't explain why and I don't want to know anyway. 😊
Top   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
There is a difference between something that is possible and something that is probable. I talk with each querent according to my intuition, but I avoid absolutes regarding future events. If a desirable outcome is shown, I might say: "This looks good", and encourage them to further pursue their course of action (thus making the outcome even more likely!). If an outcome doesn't look so good, I will try to explore ways how they can modify it for the better.

From the onset, my readings focus rather on finding the most recommendable course for action than on predicting what is allegedly bound to happen.

"Always in motion the future is." Yoda



What we decide to do and - I can't emphasize this enough - the attitudes that we adopt will indeed determine the course that events take to a high degree. To become more aware of how we are essentially creating our own realties and have more conscious choice regarding it, therein lies the true potential of the Tarot.
Your approach is certainly very sensible, Michael, but...if we really want to look at things that way, EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING IS PROBABLE, possible, likely , in at least one of the many parallel universes we are surrounded by or live in ! It's pure anarchy ! You know what you just reminded me of...? Years ago, I had fallen in love with a guy who seemed to also like me, but I wasn't sure. I asked a tarot reader I knew, who of course I had reason to believe was good, if there were any chances that he liked me too, and that there might be something between us....she said yes, he might be interested, but I would have to make the first move, because he wasn't going to....it seemed a reasonable reading of the situation, and I didn't have a problem making the first move, as I also had a feeling he liked me...and eventually, something did happen between us....a skeptic might say now, well, did you really need tarot, or magic, or the supernatural, or just the law of probabilities to know that a healthy young guy wouldn't say no to a pretty girl who made a clear move on him ???
Things then changed when our " relationship " (if you can call it that ! ) moved forward, amid many difficulties...I went back to that tarot reader, and she said, again, that yes, with him, I would find stability, a home, a family, I just had to persevere....of course it never happened....and it turned out, later on, that there were good reasons why it COULD NEVER have happened....now, how come tarot got it right the first time, but not the second ? Is it maybe because in the first case, that reader was dealing with the law of probabilities ( nice girl-young guy-equal sex) whereas in the second case, she was dealing with something much less likely to happen -marriage, family, and so on...?
Do you get my point ???
God I hope you do, 'cause it's late and I'm tired.....

PS Michael, I WILL get back to you on that chart....
Top   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farzon View Post
There have been some very interesting thoughts about the errors of tarot so far... But this question already implies that Tarot should be right all the time. I just had this thought on the subway tonight. It will sound very theological but I can't put in into words another way.

So if we assume Tarot knows everything about the future and makes no mistakes, what does that make the Tarot? Doesn't that make the Tarot God? I think it is easily understood that a set of cards, packed in plastic is not God. ��

Also, if we assume the Tarot has been handed down to our ancestors by the gods of ancient Egypt or some Angels, the cards still are done by human beings. They are symbols for the human mind to understand, and the human mind will never understand everything.

And if Tarot is Magic... well Magic won't be almighty or all-knowing, would it? Magic, too is just a tool to be handled with care.

I know these arguments go back to my first post in some points, but I feel they express my thoughts much better this way.

And to cheer you up again nikita_:
To predict the future for others should be your choice. Maybe Tarot can't predict the future but we can do so with the Tarot. Even if we fail sometimes and even if we recognize only afterwards sometimes. I can't explain why and I don't want to know anyway. ��
No, the " they're just pretty pieces of coloured paper " won't work with me, Farzon....like you said, it's what's behind them that matters....if we believe that there is something, of course....God, the Devil, the archangel Metatron. ancient wisdom...whatever...
Maybe magic is not almighty, and all-knowing...but the question of how it works remains open...certainly, my approach to telling the future will change....from now on, I will remind myself and others when reading that it may or may not come true, depending on which parallel universe we end up....but I can't deny, I'm a bit disappointed....and now ravenest can have a good laugh at how naive and stupid I've been so far, and how I should have known this all along....
Top   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
There is a difference between something that is possible and something that is probable. I talk with each querent according to my intuition, but I avoid absolutes regarding future events. If a desirable outcome is shown, I might say: "This looks good", and encourage them to further pursue their course of action (thus making the outcome even more likely!). If an outcome doesn't look so good, I will try to explore ways how they can modify it for the better.

From the onset, my readings focus rather on finding the most recommendable course for action than on predicting what is allegedly bound to happen.

"Always in motion the future is." Yoda



What we decide to do and - I can't emphasize this enough - the attitudes that we adopt will indeed determine the course that events take to a high degree. To become more aware of how we are essentially creating our own realties and have more conscious choice regarding it, therein lies the true potential of the Tarot.
Your points here are reallllyyyy close to mine when I posted some days ago and I think you approached the issue here with great care. This is the way I also prefer to read and approach the Tarot, and usually when the mindset of my querents is correctly alligned before the reading begins aids my attempts to help them manifest a more desirable (under their point of view) possible future and how to unlock the "magic" (you can call it that, this is a nice definition of what magic is for many cultures of the old) that they already have within to make things happen for their lives or improve the conditions under which they currently are.

Since your post inspired me to re-approach the issue, I would like to add another viewpoint to consider here, that the attitude and the mindset we adopt helps us face the future which will unfold itself and how our realities, each human's universe if you like, greatly determines how this future will affect us, how we can affect it and how well we will be able to "take it". The Tarot is an excellent guide to tap into this magic within and to help us form or approach or re-evaluate our future. This approach to Tarot was what guided me to read and learn about it and through it, and readers making readings under this prism and with this philosophy are the readers that inspired me to become a reader in the first place.

Ravenest formed really analytical posts on the matter as well, even if most of them were misunderstood or underappreciated as far as I understand as well.
Top   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
No, the " they're just pretty pieces of coloured paper " won't work with me, Farzon....like you said, it's what's behind them that matters....if we believe that there is something, of course....God, the Devil, the archangel Metatron. ancient wisdom...whatever...
Maybe magic is not almighty, and all-knowing...but the question of how it works remains open...certainly, my approach to telling the future will change....from now on, I will remind myself and others when reading that it may or may not come true, depending on which parallel universe we end up....but I can't deny, I'm a bit disappointed....and now ravenest can have a good laugh at how naive and stupid I've been so far, and how I should have known this all along....
No, not just pieces of colored paper. They are symbols and very strong ones.

But they are just a tool, a means to an end not the end itself. An imperfect tool in an imperfect world. Or, from my point of view, the best tool possible for the best world possible.

You seem to believe it's magic and in some way I believe it's, too. But what I like about the idea of magic is, that you can't explain it. Otherwise it would be science.

@Glass Owl: I love your concept of magic within oneself. I have to focus on this in my readings from now on!

@Michael Sternbach: That I didn't think of Yoda here... shame on me 😁. But there's so much wisdom in these words, isn't there?
Top   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farzon View Post
No, not just pieces of colored paper. They are symbols and very strong ones.

But they are just a tool, a means to an end not the end itself. An imperfect tool in an imperfect world. Or, from my point of view, the best tool possible for the best world possible.

You seem to believe it's magic and in some way I believe it's, too. But what I like about the idea of magic is, that you can't explain it. Otherwise it would be science.

@Glass Owl: I love your concept of magic within oneself. I have to focus on this in my readings from now on!

@Michael Sternbach: That I didn't think of Yoda here... shame on me ��. But there's so much wisdom in these words, isn't there?
I would like to think it's magic, yes...magic in the old, popular sense, of course...but of course, I realize that there are many possible explanations for how it works...many of which have been mentioned here....
Top   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
There is a difference between something that is possible and something that is probable. I talk with each querent according to my intuition, but I avoid absolutes regarding future events. If a desirable outcome is shown, I might say: "This looks good", and encourage them to further pursue their course of action (thus making the outcome even more likely!). If an outcome doesn't look so good, I will try to explore ways how they can modify it for the better.
From the onset, my readings focus rather on finding the most recommendable course for action than on predicting what is allegedly bound to happen.
But anyway, Michael, I don't intend to throw the baby out with the bath water, so I don't think I will stop using tarot because it's not infallible....and your approach does seem the most sensible....
Top   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
I would like to think it's magic, yes...magic in the old, popular sense, of course...but of course, I realize that there are many possible explanations for how it works...many of which have been mentioned here....
But the cards are made in factories aren't they? There might be old fashioned magic around but only when you cast it. The cards are only cards without a magician. Magic doesn't work by itself as far as I know 😌.

Furthermore even if they are man-made there is no reason not to have respect for the work of man. What I was trying to say is, if they are of otherworldly origin then you can see these symbols as translations. Like every holy book out there. Believing that it's the book itself that is holy is fundamentalism.
Top   #139
Michael Sternbach's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita_ View Post
Your approach is certainly very sensible, Michael, but...if we really want to look at things that way, EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING IS PROBABLE, possible, likely , in at least one of the many parallel universes we are surrounded by or live in ! It's pure anarchy !
While it's true that everything and anything is possible, not everything is equally probable - at least as seen from the universe that we actually live in. We are not talking about anarchy here, unless you look at this from a purely 'Newtonian' universe.

By the way, talking about the science/magic question, personally, my interest lies in connecting the two with each other. This has to do with linking the two parts of that grey mass between our ears, also. As magic becomes more scientific, science becomes more magical.
Top   #140




 

 


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