What else?!

moderndayruth

Paths, Dignities, Hebrew Letters, Color Scales, Numerology, Projective Synthetic Geometry, Scrying... did i miss anything?

I mean, i know you can read without any of it, but its a pity to reach for Thoth then, no?

I didn't really try up to now, have the deck, love the artwork, but didn't dab all that much... or at all.

Now i stocked up on books and dvd's (Lon Milo and Wang mostly, and TBOT of course)... and there seems to be no and.

A quote from DuQuette's "Low Magic"
"For centuries an odd assortment of obsessed holy guys (who
obviously had a lot of time on their hands) identified, fingerprinted,
and booked these spirit creatures, and with zealous and anal-retentive
attention to detail, categorized them by their elemental, planetary,
zodiacal, astrological, and other traditional correspondences.
Then, with the ruthlessness of tenement landlords, these holy guys
squeezed each of them into its appropriate place in the spiritual hierarchy
of the cosmos-referenced and cross-referenced in mountains
of ancient and modern tables, graphs, and charts."

Now , those of you who read it (and not intuitively - please, that i know, not interested here) what exactly you use of it all?

I pull two cards and then i stare at them for hours.

Dignities don't make sense. I am in the dark about astrology. Don 't mention Decans.
I am going through Sexual Alchemy DVD - to no avail.

I am fascinated by the system and would like to get familiar with it, without much ambition though.
For divinatory purposes, i am good with RWS and TdM too, so its not that i am obsessing because of that...

I don't even know why i am trying so hard.

What has this deck given you?

Whad did you get in return for the effort and for putting up with the feeling that your brain will explode?

Chiska

I started off with numerology (Pythagorean) as that is what I knew (even if it was just a little). As I study and learn, I am adding more. It was overwhelming at first - all those esoteric criteria! Good grief! But I read something somewhere on this forum that made me stop obsessing with trying to learn and implement it all RIGHT NOW.

Currently, I am looking more at the paths, but I am also starting to take notice of astrological factors as well. My study is slow and steady.

Le Fanu

I just had to focus on certain aspects and accept that - for the moment - others will defeat me.

First I got to grips with the iconography without necesarily knowing what it meant. The driver of the Chariot has what look like constellations on his armour. There's a crab there too. that must mean something. Is that thing on the Priestess' lap a bow or a lyre?

Then I got to grips with the story of the New Aeon and how this deck is - among other things - his retelling of the arrival of the New Aeon.

I am hopeless at astrology and Decans. I copied out the Tree of Life and marked all the corresponding paths etc etc. Just the basic template stuff. I got a sense of the whole first and foremost. I started a notebook with the basic stuff in.

I am still hopeless at astrology and Decans. But my way into the Thoth is via the biographies right now and I'm loving it. I have always been a huge fan of biographies and I find little titbits in Crowley's life which make me think "I wonder if that relates to the Thoth deck?"

Like I was reading about some yoga technique of his that involves visualising deities (?) superimposed upon each other and I thought "mmm.. that's rather like the Aeon card!" And I have just been reading about some fascinating experimental performance art he dabbled in (cerca 1910) alongside poetry reciting and violin playing and ritualistic gestures, staged at the Caxton Hall in 1910 called "The Rites of Artemis" and the image and pose of the Priestess card came to mind. I find that I remember these biographical things and they lift another layer away.

I shall never understand everything. Of this I am sure. But I find it comforting knowing that I have a lifetime of stimulation. One day I shall feel ready to tackle the astrology aspect. There's time.

What has the Thoth given me? Comfort, beauty, stimulation, thought provoking readings, whatever the depth of my knowledge was/is. Sometimes I just respond to the artwork, but when you know a deck deeply, have thought about a deck, have identified certain symbols in it, certain references, you can never go back to being purely, entirely intuitive (I don't think). There's always that accumulation of knowledge that spills out.

Give the Thoth your attention, I just know you will love it given the time. I too love the RWS and the historic decks but the Thoth has stealthily crept up as my main deck now and I feel far from being an expert. Simply because no other deck stretches me quite so much. If anyone *out there* in the other forums overhears me, they'll tear me apart, but I look at the RWS and other RWS-based decks and they feel so easy. Not that I am a pefect reader or am denying all the GD symbolism etc etc, but the Thoth stretches me like no other deck. And it comforts me to know that it will go on doing so.

You do not need to be an expert before you start reading with it. But if you read DuQuette and maybe Snuffin, you'll be very, very well equipped! I didn't dare attempt the Book of Thoth till much later. I thought I wouldn't understand anything. But I could. I amazed myself!

moderndayruth

Chiska said:
I started off with numerology (Pythagorean) as that is what I knew (even if it was just a little). As I study and learn, I am adding more. It was overwhelming at first - all those esoteric criteria! Good grief! But I read something somewhere on this forum that made me stop obsessing with trying to learn and implement it all RIGHT NOW.

Currently, I am looking more at the paths, but I am also starting to take notice of astrological factors as well. My study is slow and steady.

Thank you for the reply Chiska!

Ohh, i forgot I Ching!

Matters big deal for understanding the Courts!

Goodness, it seems they indeed cramped in all the esoteric knowledge available at the time on these cards!!!!!

You are right - no way it all can be implemented right now... or any time soon!

I think i might know to which post you are referring - its somewhere between the links to Dignities threads here, i think Alta linked to it - someone wise says (if i remember correctly) all of that is not more than 50% of the interpretation and that we still should go with the meanings or something, is it that one?

I must confess that i am applying my TdM skills to some extent - relating the Minosr to the Majors and from there reading them according to the suit...
Oh, well...
I guess i'll be hanging out at the subforum here, see you around!

moderndayruth

Le Fanu said:
First I got to grips with the iconography without necesarily knowing what it meant. The driver of the Chariot has what look like constellations on his armour. There's a crab there too. that must mean something. Is that thing on the Priestess' lap a bow or a lyre?

Its the best to start there! At least that's what i do too!
I mean, that's how i learned the other decks too!

Le Fanu said:
I am hopeless at astrology and Decans. I copied out the Tree of Life and marked all the corresponding paths etc etc. Just the basic template stuff. I got a sense of the whole first and foremost. I started a notebook with the basic stuff in.

You have an interactive Tree of Life with the paths here:http://www.servantsofthelight.org/QBL/Index.html
Click on the Path itself and see magic happening

Le Fanu said:
I am still hopeless at astrology and Decans. But my way into the Thoth is via the biographies right now and I'm loving it. I have always been a huge fan of biographies and I find little titbits in Crowley's life which make me think "I wonder if that relates to the Thoth deck?"

Honestly, i had strong aversion for Crowley, before getting to Lon Milo's materials - wasn't it for his books and dvd's, and his laid back attitude - i'd never get to study the deck, Crowley personally did repulse me (still does to certain extent.)
I'd love to read Israel Regardie's book on him, for that guy i do have high appreciation; i think his studies of psychiatry later on did influence Lon Milo's approach to the magical work, as to the work with one's own psyche; that's the approach that makes sense to me, otherwise i couldn't swallow all the demons and spirits talk.

Le Fanu said:
Like I was reading about some yoga technique of his that involves visualising deities (?) superimposed upon each other and I thought "mmm.. that's rather like the Aeon card!"

That does remind me of scrying, here is how Wang explains it:
"Skrying, meaning the projection of oneself into an inner vision, is actually very
simple. It involves nothing more than sitting quietly in front of a Tarot card (or
other stimulus), closing one's eyes and stepping into that card in imagination.
The essential principle is that we create "day dreams," allowing our minds to
flow within the given structure of a Tarot card. Soon most students discover
that what they experience could not possibly be of their own making. At very
least, most are astonished by the vitality and spontaneity of the images which
the Tarot cards evoke.
If we make no attempt to directly encounter these images and energies,
the whole system of Qabalah and Tarot is utterly useless. It is, as Lewis
Carroll's Alice said, "only a pack of cards." Qabalah, Christianity, Hinduism,
Buddhism, etc., all reduce to trivia if not applied. This means self-exploration in
meditative exercises with the cards, or whatever system we may choose. There
is no other way..."
He (Robert Wang) recommends Ragardie's books too (and also performing the Lesser Banishing Ritual is a must!)

Le Fanu said:
I shall never understand everything. Of this I am sure. But I find it comforting knowing that I have a lifetime of stimulation. One day I shall feel ready to tackle the astrology aspect. There's time.

Yes, exactly! Actually, the only area where i feel some confidence is the part with Hebrew letters, Wang massively quotes Zohar and refers to it often - though in Qabbalistic Tarot he says it was never fully translated into English - which is not true, at least not any more; there is unabridged version by Kabbalah Center, i have it - its 22 books + index... and honestly, only those require at least couple of years of intensive study!

Le Fanu said:
What has the Thoth given me? Comfort, beauty, stimulation, thought provoking readings, whatever the depth of my knowledge was/is. Sometimes I just respond to the artwork, but when you know a deck deeply, have thought about a deck, have identified certain symbols in it, certain references, you can never go back to being purely, entirely intuitive (I don't think). There's always that accumulation of knowledge that spills out.

Le Fanu said:
Give the Thoth your attention, I just know you will love it given the time.

I love it from the very beginning, its that i don't understand it.

Honestly - the reason i stick with it, apart from the artwork which is divine; is that i do feel empowerment from working with this deck, it is different than all other decks.
Its sobering, cynical and strong.

Le Fanu said:
And it comforts me to know that it will go on doing so.

That's an excellent point - i also needed the challenge.

Le Fanu said:
You do not need to be an expert before you start reading with it. But if you read DuQuette and maybe Snuffin, you'll be very, very well equipped! I didn't dare attempt the Book of Thoth till much later. I thought I wouldn't understand anything. But I could. I amazed myself!

Oh i read TBOT couple of times by now! I am with DuQuette and Wang for now (and Regardie too) - i have some six or seven books and dvd's and also everything else i find online - like correspondence between Frida Harris and Crowley etc... What shall i tell you, i am hardly getting any sleep!!!!!

Btw... lol, you know me, i am sometimes so arrogant when it comes to my reading abilities - i did already read face to face for others with it;mah, what can i tell you, it was awesome!!!
The person i read for is a famous American poetess, very special sensibility - so it wasn't a classical reading, more of an performance if you wish... that's when i knew i was hooked on the deck!

Thank you for thoughtful reply!

eta for typo, its late here

Always Wondering

moderndayruth said:
Now , those of you who read it (and not intuitively - please, that i know, not interested here) what exactly you use of it all?

I use it all as stepping stones, from one little insight to the next. I rarely read for others. These are my 78 little mirrors to myself.

moderndayruth said:
I pull two cards and then i stare at them for hours.

Dignities don't make sense. I am in the dark about astrology. Don 't mention Decans.
I am going through Sexual Alchemy DVD - to no avail.

I do this too, to the point of banging my head against the wall. Then when I am not looking or thinking, something clicks. It's sneaky that way.

moderndayruth said:
I don't even know why i am trying so hard.

DuQuette in ask Baba Lon. "If we weren't so impatient to run, we would never learn to stand and walk."

moderndayruth said:
What has this deck given you?

A long term challenge. Some very interesting folks to converse with. And some freedom to live my life in a more satisfying way.

moderndayruth said:
Whad did you get in return for the effort and for putting up with the feeling that your brain will explode?

A headache. :laugh:

And some patience for myself.
Now I am going to ask about the Empress and a magickal square and try to explode it again.

AW

moderndayruth

Always Wondering said:
I use it all as stepping stones, from one little insight to the next. I rarely read for others. These are my 78 little mirrors to myself.

This last sentence is one of best lines of poetry i read recently!!!!!

Always Wondering said:
I do this too, to the point of banging my head against the wall. Then when I am not looking or thinking, something clicks. It's sneaky that way.

Hahah!!!

Always Wondering said:
DuQuette in ask Baba Lon. "If we weren't so impatient to run, we would never learn to stand and walk."

True! You gotta love him though! You know - i must say that (i feel) he is the first real Kabbalsit i saw/met outside of the other tradition (Jewish Kabbalah); its not easy to explain in words - but you feel that from him, this positive, purified energy and... well, love, actually.
And he has the gift to explain complicated things easily - the truth of the matter is that most of the explanations i've heard before his' - left me with the impression they don't know themselves what they are talking about.

Always Wondering said:
A long term challenge. Some very interesting folks to converse with. And some freedom to live my life in a more satisfying way.

You are right - very different crew you meet via Thoth. I am sort of tired of the usual implications of the other tradition - i mean to TdM Enrique and some other folks are doing jsutice, but RWS i am afraid is progressively becoming your agony aunt,and i personally am so over that.

Always Wondering said:
A headache.

Haha, likewise!

Always Wondering said:
And some patience for myself.
Now I am going to ask about the Empress and a magickal square and try to explode it again.

AW[/QUOTE]
Very nice, lol!
Thank you! See you around!

Flaxen

I think the vast store of knowledge that the Thoth encompasses is part of its appeal to me.
When I first got it, I spent ages looking at the images and working out which deities they were linked with. This was an easy way in for me because I'm reasonably well-versed in mythology. I'm not too bad on the astrology side of things either especially form a traditional perspective.

My current area of focus/struggle is the different paths in Kaballah. I've read and re-read books and only a little piece seems to penetrate my brain.

I found the Duquette book hugely helpful when I first started trying to make headway with all that symbolism and it gave me the confidence to tackle the Book of Thoth. I'm finding it an extraordinarily rich text which I re-read regularly. Each time, I get another 'aha!' moment.

There is still a long way to go with it all but I love the time I spend with it.

I find it interesting that each person in this thread has posted different areas that they find ok or struggle with. Maybe we should try and pool our expertise.

moderndayruth

Flaxen said:
I think the vast store of knowledge that the Thoth encompasses is part of its appeal to me.
When I first got it, I spent ages looking at the images and working out which deities they were linked with. This was an easy way in for me because I'm reasonably well-versed in mythology.

I envy you! I am lost there!
Not to mention that my Jewish soul, for some historical reasons, has strong aversion towards Greek Mythology!

Flaxen said:
I'm not too bad on the astrology side of things either especially form a traditional perspective.

That really means a lot!!! I got myself 'Astrology for dummies' - i know it doesn't sound very intellectual, but one needs to start somewhere!
I have some excellent books on (Jewish) Kabbalistic astrology - but that's another tradition, and it sets different goals (and uses different calendar even.)

Flaxen said:
My current area of focus/struggle is the different paths in Kaballah. I've read and re-read books and only a little piece seems to penetrate my brain.

I am reading Wang's book - but you can imagine that to me its even more confusing - i mean the switch from Jewish to Hermetic tradition.
Btw, a book that i can't reccomend strongly enough is Rav Berg's 'Taming Chaos' - its not about paths per se (Jewish Kabbalah, at least Lurianic one that i am studying doesn't use Tarot and doesn't apply paths in that way), but that's the first book that made me understand how the heck this circulation of energy works within the Tree and what happens once the Idea has left Keter, how does it arrive to be manifested in Malchut.
Its witty and funny and - as i said - the first book that made sense to me.
This is a good free site for Zohar https://www2.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=zohar/zohar
Only excerpts there - but its good translation, with Hebrew text parallel (otherwise, if its only English - its void, it doesn't have magical power/spiritual impact, as good as the translation might be), with appropriate Kabbalistic commentaries... honestly, its very difficult to find a kosher Zohar source, this is one of the very few online ones that i am aware of.

Flaxen said:
I found the Duquette book hugely helpful when I first started trying to make headway with all that symbolism and it gave me the confidence to tackle the Book of Thoth. I'm finding it an extraordinarily rich text which I re-read regularly. Each time, I get another 'aha!' moment.

There is still a long way to go with it all but I love the time I spend with it.

I find it interesting that each person in this thread has posted different areas that they find ok or struggle with. Maybe we should try and pool our expertise.

Yes! Way to go! :thumbsup:

Flaxen

moderndayruth said:
I envy you! I am lost there!
Not to mention that my Jewish soul, for some historical reasons, has strong aversion towards Greek Mythology!

The myths concerning the 7 planets and corresponding deities is particularly fruitful in terms of understanding the Western Magical Tradition. My own major area of interest is actually in Germanic and Norse mythology with classical as a interesting sideline.

moderndayruth said:
I am reading Wang's book - but you can imagine that to me its even more confusing - i mean the switch from Jewish to Hermetic tradition.
Btw, a book that i can't reccomend strongly enough is Rav Berg's 'Taming Chaos' - its not about paths per se (Jewish Kabbalah, at least Lurianic one that i am studying doesn't use Tarot and doesn't apply paths in that way), but that's the first book that made me understand how the heck this circulation of energy works within the Tree and what happens once the Idea has left Keter, how does it arrive to be manifested in Malchut.
Its witty and funny and - as i said - the first book that made sense to me.

Thanks for the recommendation. That looks really interesting and a useful addition to the growing 'Books to help me understand the Thoth Tarot' library.

I've been reading Rachel Pollack's 'The Kabbalah Tree', partly because I was spending time with the Haindl and had read her books relating to that tarot.

moderndayruth said:
This is a good free site for Zohar https://www2.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=zohar/zohar
Only excerpts there - but its good translation, with Hebrew text parallel (otherwise, if its only English - its void, it doesn't have magical power/spiritual impact, as good as the translation might be), with appropriate Kabbalistic commentaries... honestly, its very difficult to find a kosher Zohar source, this is one of the very few online ones that i am aware of.

That looks really useful too. Thank you!