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RWS 9 Swords V Thoth 9 Swords

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RWS 9 Swords V Thoth 9 Swords


It seems that the RWS 9 of Swords is internal strife. The mind working overtime yet from what I've read, the Thoth 9 is caused by outer rather than inner, turmoil or Cruelty. Does anyone know why this is?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caridwen
It seems that the RWS 9 of Swords is internal strife. The mind working overtime yet from what I've read, the Thoth 9 is caused by outer rather than inner, turmoil or Cruelty. Does anyone know why this is?
What's the source of this information? It doesn't sound like Crowley's own interpretation of the card.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
What's the source of this information? It doesn't sound like Crowley's own interpretation of the card.
My own interpretation of the card from what I've read. Why, what is Crowley's?
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I don't have the text in front of me right now, but I remember Crowley specifically describing this card as "agony of mind".
Conscious thought below the level of reason or intellect. There's an automatic quality to it as if the mind is out of control and running in circles.

Crowley also describes this card as the state of mind of the psychopath or the fanatic.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
I don't have the text in front of me right now, but I remember Crowley specifically describing this card as "agony of mind".
Conscious thought below the level of reason or intellect. There's an automatic quality to it as if the mind is out of control and running in circles.

Crowley also describes this card as the state of mind of the psychopath or the fanatic.
That is strange because when it has come up for me in readings - it has referred to others being cruel and cruel words.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caridwen
That is strange because when it has come up for me in readings - it has referred to others being cruel and cruel words.
But is the cruelty in the actions and words themselves? Or is it how they are perceived by the recipient? Sometimes the cruelest things are completely unintentional and contain no malice whatsoever. You know how it is when someone takes something the wrong way.

Conversely the harshest insults can either crush someone or make them burst out laughing. It's all dependent on the state of mind.
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I understand your point, but don't you think the word Cruelty infers an outside influence?
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Whenever I get any Swords cards come up in a reading I remind myself that every sword is double edged. Cruelty comes in many forms, and not all are external. To me it seems a little too easy to blame all manifestations of the 9 of Swords on an external source. It's kind of symptomatic of the victim mentality.

The 9 of Swords can be a glimpse at the state of mind of someone who is dishing out cruelty and the nasty effects it has on the person on the other end. But to exclusively adopt this external interpretation is too easy. Just like it's all too easy to blame someone else for our problems.

Many problems are self created and people torture themselves needlessly with half imagined fears and worries blown out of all proportion. Some people live their lives as if they are martyrs. It reminds me of the RadioHead song: Just. "You do it too yourself just you. You and no one else."

Looking at the RWS 9 of Swords it's obvious that the person in bed is in some sort of mental distress. But the source of that distress is completely unknown.
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I usually get the 5 of swords and the 9's mixed up when it comes to others being malicious or cruel to someone, i have sometimes thought of Crowelys cruelty of being cruel too ourselves, not being able to see the good or positives about how we are, and this can sometimes make other people treat us badly becaus we don't like ourselves that much. We often inflict negative thoughts about ourselves everyday on how we are as people or how we think other people see us, so i think the cruelty card is mainly done by us and not usually by someone else.
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Yeah and as I heard someone say on tv last night - "you choose the words to define you, don't let someone else do it for you." We decide if others' words are cruel or not, as was said in the above post. The 9 of SW is the mental torture we put ourselves through, the paranoia and the nightmares, the staying up all night worrying over what we said or what we thought - it is like self-torture, which in the end is cruel. Why would we need anyone else to do it for us when we are so good at doing it to ourselves?
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