Chosson full plate set for collectioners

Hello,

Generally speaking when an exception is contradicted by all the others samples, it's discarded as an anomaly, so in that way here I find it a bit risky to use a unique occurence as a general rule : the Rochus Schaer "orientation" may well be an exception as much as the presence of a flower on the X of swords.

The fact that this exception corroborates an hypothesis about the cards meaning should lead to question said hypothesis rather than seeing a confirmation there - as you noted yourself this deck is quite altered when compared to the pattern emerging from all known TdM2 decks. Going back and forth from the "signification" hypothesis to the "anomaly" deck is a typical case of a circular reasonning - and a dead end if you ask me.

it is fair enough to say that with all these elements taken into consideration, it is quite clear that the swords in the Sword suit traditionally do not point upward, but downward standing at rest

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on the contrary it would be fair to say that this unique example contradicted by all known data isn't relevant to issue any conclusion.

Looking at a parallel example : spanish suited cards, we can see that the Ace of Swords is sometimes clearly pointing upwards (Piacentine), downwards (Aluette, Portuguese pattern), not clearly determined (some older spanish decks).

The safest remaining hypothesis would be to consider that swords may have been considered pointing upwards or downwards following different cardmakers, and maybe some of them didn't care, and maybe some of them had opposite opinions about that matter.
Maybe future discoveries will add more consistent data to sort out this issue (not a very important issue if you ask me)

Bertrand

eltarot78 said:

Hi Wilfried, good to see you around here, thank you very much for your reply.

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You're very welcome. Thank you for pointing at this very important issue. I'm very pleased and grateful that you gave the opportunity to make the point, and somehow clear this out for all of us. By the way, I've made a couple of corrections in the article, and added a few comments.

Yours,

Bertrand said:

Hello,

Generally speaking when an exception is contradicted by all the others samples, it's discarded as an anomaly, so in that way here I find it a bit risky to use a unique occurence as a general rule : the Rochus Schaer "orientation" may well be an exception as much as the presence of a flower on the X of swords.
[…]
Looking at a parallel example : spanish suited cards, we can see that the Ace of Swords is sometimes clearly pointing upwards (Piacentine), downwards (Aluette, Portuguese pattern), not clearly determined (some older spanish decks).

Click to expand...

The point of the unique occurrence of the Rochus Schaer is not used here as the basis of a general rule (I said "seems" to be certified by this card), but appears to me as an affirmation of the fact that, in the Marseilles Tarot – the very specific type of deck we're dealing with in this thread – the swords are primarily indeed pointed downward, a point which is supported by the two first statements I've made in my post. Now,as practically the swords are making circles by swirling into the air, we're indeed free to apprehend them in one or the other orientation, of course. But what matters here, specifically in the Marseilles Tarot, which is so precisely codified, as being actually the most archetypal – and so logical – of all the Tarots (see my book) is what stands as primary, what is logically implied at the first degree, which helps us to understand the very symbolism of the cards. In that regard the primary orientation of the sword is an essential issue.

This being said, if we may indeed consider the downward pointing swords as the primary orientation of the cards, we need to consider an argued counterpoint to this view, which is absolutely relevant as we will see, and which will finally reconcile all points of view.

First, as we've seen, as the swords are making circles by swirling into the air, we're free to apprehend them in one or the other orientation. Indeed, when we arrange the whole Sword suit as a linear sequence, we can see that the swords are actually set within the interlockings of a long chain made of rings, giving an obvious circular movement to the whole suit, so that it is actually justified to apprehend them in one or the other orientation. This freedom of view is even more justified as, if we count out the Rochus Schaer X of Sword card featuring a flower, which is a unique occurrence known of such a feature in this specific card, there are not any obvious signs in the cards from II to X providing hint for the proper orientation. This is an essential point because we may also consider the suit horizontaly, both suit and cards, the ring chain then turning into a double sine wave, the point of the sword indicating the orientation of the impulse. This view is essential because such a double sin wave does actually run throughout the whole path of the Tarot (Rota), as it is demonstrated in my book Le Code Sacré Du Tarot (The Sacred Code of The Tarot).

Second, as we've also seen above, the sword within the mandorla (almond shape made of the interlocking of the chain rings) is actually symbolic of the hieros gamos, the hierogamy, or sacred marriage of the divine feminine and the divine masculine, the sword being symbolic of the phallus, and the mandorla being symbolic of the vulva. Now, traditionnally, these two symbols are figured by two equilateral triangle interwoven, a figure known as the Solomon's Seal or David Star, the triangle pointing upward corresponding analogically to the sword (Excalibur), and the triangle pointing downward corresponding to the cup (the Grail). This certainly makes a point in favor of an upward orientation of the sword in the suit. This is a very important point because the Solomon's seal can be considered as the very symbol of symbols, constituting the very seal of the sacred geometry matrix (the metaphysical blueprint of the whole Creation), of the cosmic hierogamy (the universal dynamic at the very core of all things), and, which is absolutely essential here, actually constitute the very integral matrix of the Marseilles Tarot ("type II") as demonstrated in my book Le Code Sacré Du Tarot (see http://www.tarot-de-marseille-millennium.com/english/tarot_sacred_code.html ). It must also be precised that this seal is the alchemical symbol of the philosopher stone…

Now, it must be added that, if the Rochus Schaer's X of Sword is fascinating, featuring a flower which, when turned upward, implies the swords pointing downward, the III of Swords as we can see it in all the Marseilles Tarot ("type II" especially) features laurel branches heading down if we consider the sword pointing downward. This may imply that, as we can see in the N. Conver 1760 woodcuts, both the swords and the flowers have indeed to be considered heading downward primarily (not "definitely"), a postulate which seems to invalidate the Rochus Schaer's X of Sword's "theory" discussed above (in regard of the orientations only though), for if in this specific card we consider the flower heading down, then consequently the two swords are pointing up. The questions regarding this specific card are thus still open…

In the end, as a synthesis of all that's been discussed above and in the previous posts, it results that, in the Tarot of Marseilles, we're not only free to apprehend the swords in whatever orientation we decide, but most essentially, within a sequence of cards, it would be appropriate to look at the cards of the Sword suit (from II to X) in both orientations, eventually fixing one orientation instead of another according to the very intuition and understanding of the person concerned by the sequence or by the reader, in regard of the subject the sequence of cards do actually translate and articulate symbolically. The upward pointing sword could then indicate whether an obstruction (the point of the sword being stuck or immobilized) or on the contrary, the piercing and the overcoming of psychic knots or restraints, of psychic complexes, some sort of potentially victorious act. The downward pointing sword could be see as spiritual potentialities or mental forces ready to be wielded, for good or ill intent. We are really free to go…

It is interesting to notice that in the Wand suit (the second active Emblem of the four suits), when the cards are apprehended horizontally, the Wand suit does feature, similarly as the arcs in the Sword suit, a double sine wave, but this time angular and broken (that we find also as such running through the path of the Tarot embedded within the sacred geometry of the Rota, see my book) instead of circular and continuous. Besides, in the Wand suit, as in the Sword suit, the cards do feature some flowers and plants, but this time both pointing upward and downward, or, if seen horizontally, left (masculine) and right (feminine), the cross of the wands being besides also symbolic of a hierogamy.

So, in the end, here we have a couple of examples demonstrating how the Marseilles Tarot does reveal not only to be of an extraordinary richness and intricacy, but showing how it allows an extraordinary liberty in regard of the apprehension of the cards and the interpretation of their symbolism, once they've been logically clarified.