Marseilles Seekers Thread (First Exercise)

EnriqueEnriquez

Frannie, you said:

franniee said:
23

My breathing is speeding up. I am having trouble taking a deep breath. Like when I run or when I get nervous. Heart is racing a bit too. The feeling is all in my chest.

If you think about it, this could be a perfect description of what Le Pendu is experiencing. We could imagine how hard has to be to keep breathing while you are upside-down, and how our heart will race in despair. There is an inner race in that card, because we never want to run so much as when we are tied up.

Sometimes we are doing a reading, the cards are on the table, and the person is talking. She may be employing words that are very similar to what you just said. In these occasions, we scan the cards, trying to recognize the client, and her words, on them.

A card like Le Pendu, la Maison Dieu, etc, have a very particular quality: they only feel right if we look twice. At first glance Le Pendu feels horrible, tortured, punished, hanging there. We have all experienced the horrified gasp our clients let out when this cards pops out. It is only when we look again than we see his playful tongue. I think it is important to respond to both feelings. It is important to experience what is in front of us. It is often said that pain isn’t caused by the events we experience but by our opinion of them. This may be true, but a positive outlook is also an opinion.

There is something important about generating an experiential feeling from the cards, and it has to do with the fact that we tend to believe art is appreciated at a subjective level. This is a very recent idea, as recent as the late 19th-20th Century. I suspect the idea doesn’t holds any truth when it comes to the tarot. Not only because -by the time when the tarot was printed- image makers worked with very specific communicational intentions, but because these initial gut feeling about the tarot imagery. It is very unlikely that you will find a person who will jump in happiness by looking at Le Pendu, just as it is very unlikely that someone will be moved by the cheerful disposition of Albert Durer’s “Melancholy”:

http://arts.ucsc.edu/faculty/bierman/Elsinore/melancholy/melancholy images/Durer.jpg

Look at that image. How many of you would chose it to illustrate the invitation to your birthday party? :)

I would like to think that, by looking at the cards, we aren’t just allowing our subjectivity to take over, but are are truthfully tapping into each image original intention. is just that we don’t do it at an intellectual level, by means of a rational approach to iconography, history, etc. We do it as Francesco Clemente suggest in here:

“An analogical chain is a way of seeing images without skepticism. I accept all images as material that can be used to make other images. We live in the time of the fragment. The Cubists left us nothing but fragments. I piece them back together without any worry about how it was before the image was broken apart.”

Contrary to what some people think, we will never rationally know what the people in Medieval times thought. But we can feel what they felt, by engaging to their images at an experiential level.

Best,

EE
 

firefrost

Exercise 1

10 Deniers

Shuffled cards as instructed and went to my small space where I like to spread out my readings.

I’m left-handed so I placed this hand on the cards and closed my eyes.

At first, nothing. Then I imagined travelling through the deck, (a dark tunnel) seeking a card that wanted to stand out. I got number 19.

Slowly, I felt an enveloping-type force surround me, protecting me. I realised that I was holding myself stiff, so I forced relaxation. My left arm felt really heavy, and then so did my legs. So heavy, yet so grounded and safe.

In my mind I saw myself back at the house where I grew up, in front of a very old mirror that was hung on the wall with a chain. I didn’t see my reflection. There was no-one else in the house.

Coming back to my room, it’s a horrible wet and gloomy day here, but before I pulled myself out, I saw light coming in from the window, making it appear brighter.

Before looking at my card, the one that sprung to mind to appear was the Six of Cups, The RWS ‘Nostalgia’ card, although I know this is a totally different way of thinking.

Having said that, another quirky nostalgia bit here is that not only was I transported back to my old childhood home, the number 19 is significant here as well because that’s the age my mum married at, and when I was a young child, I always said I wanted to marry at that age too, simply because she did.

I’m going to hasten to add now that although I was close to her when a young child, that didn’t last. She’s now in spirit.


I turned over the card and I found myself gazing at the 10 of Pentacles.

What does it say to me?

I was going to say that it’s the same either way up, so no reversals, which felt like no going back to any nostalgia, but on a closer inspection I see I was wrong, there are two slight differences. If you look at the card with the X on the left hand side, (which would be the right way up, imho) the lines on the underside of the top leaves are longer. Also the top seed that has the two red shoots growing out of it is bigger than the underneath one. So it can be reversed! I did turn it over upright, though.

I felt encompassed and grounded and safe, and I see plenty of these symbols in the card.

There is the centre flower, with its equal four petals that is surrounded and protected by everything on the card. The two deniers either side of the flower are protected by the stem system and leaves, as are the three at the top and bottom, though not quite so strongly. Actually, that puts in mind a balance. Life has to be balanced. Finally I see the four Deniers on each side protecting the card as a whole.
 

indianstorm

exercise 1

deck- Universal Marseille ( Noblet still pending)

no 29

As I shuffled the deck-- i thought about EE's words and how it sat with me- will an useen card evoke a response.. the choice of a number was the unusual bit- to think that a random number selection would be easy to draw up from my minds eye-- there within sat another question-- I chose 29 because it is what I will be this year..

the card evoked a feeling of visual red and black swirls-- a feeling of void and being strangely at ease. i wondered what swirls were-- concentric with a black dot that appears and disappears and only to reappear-- it is a kind of an illusion -- can hear a colour, taste a sound--

interestingly-- the experience wasn't distressful-- it revealed a calmness to new experience and being at peace with strange sensations- acceptance is what comes to mind. The acceptance that a red swirling voids is just it, a void- where nothing evokes or provokes-- it just appears and then disappears..

now i will turn the card--6 of Cups..

hmm-- looking at the 6 of Cups-- in the Universal-- a lot of red in the goblets-- the vine in the middle has a central fleur with red circle with a black wave in the middle- sort of like how i visualised it--

I hope this is ok for a first try--

stormy

addendum: i think i must have had an epiphany while in the shower after writing the above-- the illusion of tasting colour and seeing sound-- is called synaesthesia-- a very particular type of hallucination :) the feeling of unprovoking void and the concentrics going away and coming back-- ironically has the same sensation of nostalgia where memories come flooding back which if you have come to terms with-- it would just be a recall of an experience-- non provoking-- just there to be appreciated and recognised-- like any experience-- i would like to think a tarot reader who is able to visualise the meaning of a card-- transalate a symbol to an emotion is an adept synaesthesiologist-- who can visualise the querants emotion or experience and take it from there--..
 

Satori

EnriqueEnriquez said:
I would like to think that, by looking at the cards, we aren’t just allowing our subjectivity to take over, but are are truthfully tapping into each image original intention. is just that we don’t do it at an intellectual level, by means of a rational approach to iconography, history, etc.

Contrary to what some people think, we will never rationally know what the people in Medieval times thought. But we can feel what they felt, by engaging to their images at an experiential level.

Interesting E. Again, this is sort of about approaching the cards at the place where you are...we are each at different levels of maturity and education, so we have to use what we have where we have it. What you put forward is that we really are feeling some of what might have been originally intended. I tend to think that the people attracted to be readers, who like to use the Marseille, may at some level (and I hope this doesn't get me burned up in flames) have some kind of tribal memory or connection to the deck (I won't say past life connection but I'm tempted to ;) ) that perhaps non-readers or non-Marseille users don't have. But then I think perhaps the non-scenic pips scare them off, as they did me, but I keep getting drawn back to the deck.

I think that Tarot readers in general are a different breed, but the readers who use the Marseille, and stick to it, tend to be very different. And I actually find it interesting that many of the people who are really historically and research oriented Marseille lovers, well, I never see them use the deck or offer to use it here on the forum. That doesn't mean they don't, but I see lots of historical discussion about iconography and very little real world discussion of how the deck goes from mechanistic to organic.
 

frelkins

21 - Noblet TdM


I love the Noblet card backs, the design reminds me of Navajo rugs for some reason, and yet the hexagonal tile type pattern is also very French, where hexagonal tile is everywhere.

Looing at card 21, I suddenly feel melancholy. Like a love-lorn ache.

The card is the Queen Coins reversed. She gazes down her aquiline nose at her coin with great concern, her mouth set and firm. Her hand seems bigger than her head, all the more to grasp her coin. Her scepter is topped with the fleur de lis, symbol of purity and faith, but it points away from her not towards her. Her crown is tipped with diamonds and a unique 6 pointed star. Her coin isn't making her happy.
 

firecatpickles

23 - CHAVALIERIE BASTONS

Relaxed, supportive, calm, resourceful

Familiar, horse and rider of one mind, working in concert, specific goal because of looking at the baton

The horse and rider are both very happy and content in the card. They both seem to have something of import to offer, though only the Knight hold the wand----still some sort of valuable resource----as if a talent or penchant for something. He is a professional.

The horse supports her rider in a relaxed way, with two hooves off the ground, effortlessly. The bit in her mouth does not cause any discomfort; it is ignored and greeted with a smile. Her burden is a labor of love for her rider.

Together they can do anything as long as they work together. Cooperation is key in this card.
 

Bernice

19 - Noblet

19 - Noblet (flornoy):

Hand on deck = feels like the 'freshness' of cut fruit - apple came to mind.
Also smoothly shaped, like a curvy sculpture. Or maybe smooth walls of a cave (?) but no darkness - felt nice. In my mind thought of the word, "slicing", but no impression of 'cutting'.

The CARD: The Empress (upright): She is rather cool looking , temperature-wise, maybe the 'freshness' ? And she does look like she has permanence - like a statue. Examining her, I think she has an ordered outlook, don't know how that might fit in. But all-in-all I feel that the 'apple-feeling' fits with her O.K.

Bee
 

EnriqueEnriquez

Hello all,

I am very happy with the results of this first little exercise. I will be posting my feedback to Frelkins, Kilted Kat and Bernice tomorrow.

In the meantime, I wanted to propose to all of you who completed the exercise, a new exercise.

Lets try to put into practice the ideas expressed in my two first ‘Eye-Rhyme’ essays. Please, place three cards at random on a horizontal row and:

- Try to describe the first experiential feeling the cards elicit in you as soon as you look at them. This doesn’t have to be elaborate. A word, or a few words, will suffice.

- Define if the sequence follows a raising, falling, or steady rhythm.

- Try to detect as many eye rhymes as you can.


Please, report back in this thread.

Best,

EE
 

SilentBreeze

Exercise 1

I've been kind of busy but now that I got to it here it is.
(using Noblet)
Card number 34
First I feel warmth, comforting warmth at first, then the feeling of being smothered, it gets hard to breathe, and it gets a little too warm, it feels heavy and trapping.

Royne de bastons
First I notice her hair, I almost wonder if it’s a man or a woman. Her golden hair seems disjointed. It’s short and yet from the back there is more hair coming out. It almost looks like it’s coming from part of her attire. Then I notice that part of her body is exposed; yet that still makes her look like a man, but that part also looks like it’s part of her clothing. Her face is neutral and doesn’t seem to help me tell. Everything about her is very ambiguous. Is it a man trying to dress as woman, or a woman trying to dress as a man. She seems to be stuffed into a large extravagant costume, which she is stuck in.

Connecting back to my initial feelings I suppose if she is stuck in a role that she is putting on as just for show, that would make her feel uncomfortable and trapped. Maybe at first this costume was meant to comfort her to keep her safe and protected, but now she has no room to move and is getting a hot in her fancy outfit, she wants out of this role.

(hopefully not completely off from the card meaning)
 

EnriqueEnriquez

Hello Silent Breeze,

It is great to have you here!

I will give you feedback tomorrow.

If you find time, please follow the exercise I just proposed above.

Best,

EE