XVIIII Le Soleil

I found pictures in this thread: Marseilles Decks XVIIII Le Soleill

Took me awhile to determine the 2 stones, Diana, they almost seem like the droplets coming from the sun.....

I wonder if the wall has something to do with the history of that time when they were created.... weren't walls highly significant back then?

Was that when the farmers were separating their land/ claiming land as their own? Or was it before, when land was more community oriented and the walls were containers of communities?

Thei significance of walls at the time the cards were created has to have strong clues ......

Diana said:

The wall reassures. It separates the old world - which the Bateleur has now been able to leave behind - from the new world.

Click to expand...

But does it also separate our conscious from our unconscious?
Or our masculine from feminine, inner and outer?

The next phase of the Moon (18) to the Sun (19), as part of our journey we need to bring light from the dark...

Skytwig: the wall being man made, is it then our own making, our own psychological barrier?

XTAX

Greetings to all - here are the conclusions JC Flornoy has drawn concerning the Sun and its wall:

"We have seen the spirit's dawn break with the Star and illuminate the unconscious with the Moon. Now the Sun is rising.
The conscious and the unconscious recognize one another. From now on they work together. The customary barrier of forgetfulness is no longer in place. These two figures are like twins, close relatives meeting once again.
One puts his hand on his companion's heart centre, while the other, blind, lays his hand on the nape of his twin's neck and follows. Their gestures signify that the relationship between them is openhearted, grounded in immediacy, in the ordinary magic of everyday life and the warmth of sharing a corner of paradise. In old Aramaic, the word "paradise" means "a garden protected from the desert by a wall".
The two figures seem to be on an island, thus emphasizing the closely personal nature of relationships between beings at this stage of evolution. The water surrounding them is coloured light blue: their garden is a spiritual place in which they perceive each other directly, as if by telepathy.
With the Sun, the being enters into the direct vision of others' suffering. He helps them transform themselves. In the sky, twenty-five drops - are they tears? : one now has a real ability to help and heal . One has gained the power to lend energy to others in order that the incredible, the marvellous, can surge up in them as well."

extract from "The Journey of the Soul"

Aside: Inside or Outside?

I think, after the agorophobia-inducing Moon, the welcome claustrophobia of the WALL is quite comforting? I am reminded of one warm, walled garden of my own childhood. As a casual observer, I often wonder whether the child(ren) are inside or outside the wall. Recently I found a reference to the fact that Crowley had (perversely or cleverly!) designed his Sun card so that HIS infants were definitely outside the wall. (which now surrounds the "primordial mound"). ISTR he was making a statement about the liberation of the Thelemic New Aeon? But I guess he (as NO slouch at Marseille symbolism!) saw them as originally inside the Wall? Idem for the RWS too?

Macavity

P.S. I have been doing a lot of comparison of Sun and Moon cards, to try to get a better "balance" in (my perception of) Moon-Bad versus Sun-Good? The only other (doubtless irrelevant) observation is that, often (but not always!) on Marseille cards, the "Fire Yods" emminate from the Sun, but are directed back towards the Moon. I guess the moon still sucks, however hard one tries?

What a wonderful thread...

I was trying to recall where I had read about the 'a garden protected from the desert by a wall'... and of course, in J-C Flornoy's The Journey of the Soul (and if elsewhere as well, I do not recall).

What had struck me in the past, prior to this quote, is that here we have two individuals - often depicted or implied with masculine and feminine traits - recalling creation. Yet the wall seems made by human hands.

Made by human hands, the clay the Earth had to be shaped (I suppose I am thinking more mud-bricks than stone, for such they seem to me) - thus again one of the simplest of human creations, both artistic (beautiful) and engineered (practical). It may serve, as mentioned, to mark a boundary, but in that case, a boundary to what? from what?

Again, each time I revisit Mark Filipas's little booklet Alphabetic Masquerade, I am astounded at the wonderful revelations therein found. In terms of this discussion on specifically the wall, again we find a Hebrew word. This, of course, at least for many of us, is but a beginning, or jumping-stone or point of departure.

A wall, of any sort, delineates space. If I look at the space from where I sit, it is amazing how such thin walls not only delineate what is 'inside' and what is 'outside', but also how, as separator, they give to the space a totally different and important tone. One side of the fence may indeed be greener, even if only a centimetre thick. The inside of a home is a home because not only of what is done within its space, but how the walls (and 'top' and 'bottom' walls we term with their own appelations of 'ceiling' and 'floor') - as I was saying, how the walls themselves permit a definition of the space.

Here this space is thus, over there it is different!

The card's depicted wall, having an appearance of straightness, also gives the implication of division into two. Yet, does not an enclosing circle, extended to an infinite radius, also give a straight line? The wall thus also encloses, simultaneously, both this side, and the other... encloses, and divides, within itself both this side and the other.

Yes, it certainly had me confused as to why the wall should be both straight and "enclosing" - unless an infinite circle! Yet the Marseille creators seem to play tricks with perspective - I'm never sure whether this was the ignorance of the times or rather some occult significance? I would prefer to believe the latter!

In random readings, the Sun card also reminded me of Colin Low (writing about the Klippot) and noting the Lurianic(?) Kabalistic creation model requiring an intitial contraction (in En Soph) where God makes room for his subsequent creation? A bit like the division or the enclosure? Or maybe the wall somehow preempts the abyss and subsequent fall of these rather innocent looking children of that creation?

The next step of creation was (apparently) the entry of light into an empty(?) tree of life which shattering all but three sephira (Sun and children?) leaving a whole host of "pot-sherds" (the yods?) flying around as Klippothic shells? But then who knows!

Macavity (rambling)

...and there are no shadows...

Sunwall??????

OK, I was looking at the different versions (in that other post I mentioned in a previous post) and what I saw is the possibility that the wall is made of the droplets (yods?) of sunlight!!!!

Especially look at the versions by Camoin and Marteau and you'll see what I mean........

Umbrae said:

...and there are no shadows...

Click to expand...

Great (and obvious) observation, but one that I had not thought of..
(I think I have been too busy concentrating on 'the otherside of the fence.')
XTAX

Re: Sunwall??????

edited