When you get to Valens Book III you'll find him using quadrant houses to make predictions (Length of Life), yet he clearly uses WSH for topics; in doing that he was typical of Astrologers of his time. Both systems were used but with different aims in mind and there's no conflict between them if this is borne in mind.
This is *very* encouraging, since it validates my personal observations.
I was talking to a vedic astrologer, and they apparently do something like this as well, with two distinct charts (rashi- which is the WSH, of course using Sidereal, so ayanamsha etc, and bhava, which is apparently about how much 'strength' the potentials promised in the WSH chart have to manifest, or not)
An 'easy way' of creating the latter (bhava/strength) chart seems to be by taking 15 degrees on each side of the Ascendant, - so the ascendant is the 'strongest' point in the first house, and then counting 30 degrees for each house. So the 'strongest' point of each house comes in the centre.
There are other ways [1] to create this chart, some of which result in unequal 'strength measurement houses', but this seems to be the most commonly used one.
At least that is how I understood it, it was a brief conversation. I could have got it completely wrong.
Details of chart construction aside, I found it interesting that the *concept* of two different charts for 'topics' and 'strength' seems to be a commonly used technique (even in modern times) in Vedic. I personally have no doubt that it reflects an original technique from the Hellenistic roots, which was conveyed to India. As you say, Valens seems to have done something similar as a matter of course for prediction/timing. (though I'm sure the differences in how the 'strength' chart is cast may vary)
My error, in so far as there was an error, was in moving away from Placidus because it was used by Modern Astrologers, and in particular, the pyschobabble crowd.
Lol I know exactly what you speak of.
The problem with WSH is the Astronomic MC, which can fluctuate between the eleventh and ninth houses. Later Hellenistic Astrologers actually commented on its frequencey in the eleventh house by WSH)which added to the strength of the eleventh in their eyes.
Very interesting.
However there's no compelling reason why the Astronomic MC should be a house cusp, rather than just a point, like the Lot of Fortune or the other Lots (though Fortune was used as the Ascendant,for the Circle of Athla).
Very interesting. The Vedic " houses are all 30 degrees, with the first house having 15 degrees centred around the ascendant" idea might work here, *if* there is a corresponding system (Equal Houses? just guessing) in traditional Western astrology. Then MC is just a "point of power", which can land in any place/house, as you point out, and probably emphasises that WSH topics as having particular power in the native's life.
I think the Vedic system works because it was 'customised' for places close to the equator. Might be interesting to know if authors other than Valens used the 'two chart' system - 1 for topics, 1 for manifestations potential and/or timing.
Hmm. Much to think about. Thanks Minderwiz, for the thought provoking ideas! I'm glad to see that the idea of two systems - one for topics and one for strength, which I derived purely experientially is not as far out as I originally thought. At least I'm not completely imagining things
[1] for e.g, dividing ascendant to MC into 3 .equal pieces, likewise MC to DESC, I didn't get into the details of the calculation, so don't know if Ascendant is cusp or middle of 1st house etc