arya ishtar
PS as to it being a game, have read that it was a game to hide it's divinatory use, and THAT was to hide its occult/mystery use. Presumably for to avoid persecution and death...
Tarot, gypsies, and qabala...
Sulis
Where have you read that?
ravenest
I have read that too Sulis ... here is the ref. ;
http://comicbookrealm.com/cover-sca...s-tarot-witch-of-the-black-rose-issue-29b.jpg
http://comicbookrealm.com/cover-sca...s-tarot-witch-of-the-black-rose-issue-29b.jpg
arya ishtar
I have been studying tarot for 20 years from books, and on the internet since it was invented. Sadly i don't have a citation for everything I've ever read, but given the attitude of the church to the occult, that is not an unreasonable assumption. But go ahead. Tell me why i am wrong. With citations and appropriate comic book references, of course...
Emily
I've loved reading through all these postings, so many different ideas. Fortune telling has been around since the dawn of time, the wise woman casting her bones, people have always wanted to know what tomorrow will bring. I have no idea where tarot cards came from but there is no doubt that they evolved in the hands of the people who used them. Gypsies, I always assumed, would tell fortunes with playing cards, but give them a TdM and they would use them too - only card reading could evolve - most other forms of divination have stopped the same, tealeaf reading, palmistry, Runes, I Ching. So I always thought it would be travellers or traders going to different places and taking their cards with them, Others seeing the cards, adding to them.
Tarot cards are still evolving, just think of how many different types of deck there are now compared to the first earliest decks. Also there are times in my history, British, where being caught with a decorated pack of cards would have you condemed as a witch and, most probably, burned at the stake.
Tarot cards are still evolving, just think of how many different types of deck there are now compared to the first earliest decks. Also there are times in my history, British, where being caught with a decorated pack of cards would have you condemed as a witch and, most probably, burned at the stake.
ravenest
On Egyptian origins
I don't think you are wrong ... for a reasonable assumption ... its just hard to prove academically or historically ... that's all, and that doesn't mean it didn't happen. (The same thing happens all over the place, the school of martial arts I studied in had a range of fighting movements put together in certain patterns to aid memory, when they were invaded and supressed from practising that they turned the movements into a dance. Those dances are now the traditional dances of that country, but those with a trained eye can detect what they are doing.)
My magical / spiritual practice is a wild eclectic hodpodge of stuff; my deck is the Thoth Deck - Egyptian Tarot, it sits on an altar under a statue of Anpu (Anubis) and between Tibetan ritual impliments (phurba and tingshaw). I sometimes do adorations to the Sun at its four quarters and chant part of it in ancient Egyptian.
Can I link all that rationally together? Of course not. Nor can I prove the historical links, Does anyone know how to pronounce ancient Egyptian? ... No.
Does any of that stop me? .... No. Is my practice and tarot reading effective ... YES! (subjectively and as I am told by others , objectively) Do I need to prove it all on an historical literal rational level - not on your life! Am I also interested in that level and history? Yep. Does one level nullify the other? No. Do I try to 'separate the planes'? Yes.
There is a principle in Hermetic Philosophy known as the Golden Chain ... I think tarot has a golden chain and one of the links is the wisdom of ancient Egypt.
Can I prove that? Actually, I couldn't be bothered ... that is not what it is about.
I don't think you are wrong ... for a reasonable assumption ... its just hard to prove academically or historically ... that's all, and that doesn't mean it didn't happen. (The same thing happens all over the place, the school of martial arts I studied in had a range of fighting movements put together in certain patterns to aid memory, when they were invaded and supressed from practising that they turned the movements into a dance. Those dances are now the traditional dances of that country, but those with a trained eye can detect what they are doing.)
My magical / spiritual practice is a wild eclectic hodpodge of stuff; my deck is the Thoth Deck - Egyptian Tarot, it sits on an altar under a statue of Anpu (Anubis) and between Tibetan ritual impliments (phurba and tingshaw). I sometimes do adorations to the Sun at its four quarters and chant part of it in ancient Egyptian.
Can I link all that rationally together? Of course not. Nor can I prove the historical links, Does anyone know how to pronounce ancient Egyptian? ... No.
Does any of that stop me? .... No. Is my practice and tarot reading effective ... YES! (subjectively and as I am told by others , objectively) Do I need to prove it all on an historical literal rational level - not on your life! Am I also interested in that level and history? Yep. Does one level nullify the other? No. Do I try to 'separate the planes'? Yes.
There is a principle in Hermetic Philosophy known as the Golden Chain ... I think tarot has a golden chain and one of the links is the wisdom of ancient Egypt.
Can I prove that? Actually, I couldn't be bothered ... that is not what it is about.
arya ishtar
been gone for many moons, but still seeking. found an awesome book (in the original sense of the definition) by DAI LEON. he's not a tarot person per se, so he has no agenda in that area. on my ipad the book is 1992 pages. after three weeks am on page 746. it is called ORIGINS OF THE TAROT and is fascinating. but a tough read. if you have ADD (i do) take your meds. and use bookmarks. revisit. am actually thinking of buying this one. has anyone else read this?
Dai Leon bio:
"A lifelong student of East-West philosophy and contemplation, Dai Léon has served for twenty-five years as a cultural emissary between modern and traditional, scientific and spiritual domains. He promotes the rich benefits of holistic and interdisciplinary studies and practices with respect to perennial wisdom traditions throughout the world. His primary retreat is on Waiheke Island, New Zealand.Dai began his studies of esoteric ritual, yoga, alchemy, and martial arts at the age of eight in France, where he was raised as a youngster. As a Catholic altar boy, he realized that he was destined to a life of spiritual awareness and service. He was subsequently schooled in America as a young mathematics savant during the 1960s and '70s, when esoteric knowledge, meditation, yoga, and body movement were mixing together, flowering into a postmodern mélange of beauty and wisdom. From that heady mix of cultural alchemy emerged new paradigms of science and a re-appreciation for traditional nondual understandings of philosophy. Lao Tzu met Plotinus and Einstein, and the world has never been the same since.After studying the philosophies and spiritual ways of the great traditions at the University of Illinois, Dai was invited to directly study under the Venerable Gia-fu Feng, head of Stillpoint Foundation in Colorado. Adept Feng had been a co-founder of Esalen Institute at Big Sur, California, and was renowned as a founding father of the East-West movement, merging nondual traditions from China to Spain to America. In the spring of 1978, Sifu (indicating 'monk' or 'teacher') Dai Sealed Heart-Mind with Master Feng (a traditional method of Lineage or Dharma Transmission). Following this, it was requested that he teach the Tao that is none other than the One of Heraclitus, Plotinus, and Western wisdom through the ages.Dai has authored several books and interactive media titles. He has served as a Director of multicultural, educational, interactive companies for twenty-five years. Since 1994 he has advised industry and governmental bodies on the socio-cultural impact of financial, wellness, and interactive technologies. Through many forms of media, with a particular love and focus upon that of the ecstatic body-mind, Dai has taught in a traditional yet postmodern way. His flowing mantra is to empower, enlighten, and entertain." wow.
Tanga
Fabulous read - thanks to you all for giving me a great roundup of the "Origins of Tarot".
How delightful ravenest! - as you took the words right out of my mouth, down to wondering how to pronounce that old language (bar swapping a few implements here and there. My main statue is Upasht - or Bastet)
How delightful ravenest! - as you took the words right out of my mouth, down to wondering how to pronounce that old language (bar swapping a few implements here and there. My main statue is Upasht - or Bastet)
ravenest
Would you like a 'raspberry' beer with that ?
( no , that is not a nasty comment .. for those that dont get the connection ... its to do with the mythology of the Upper Egyptian version; Sekhmet ... as long as it is realised she is (in both Upper and Lowe Egypt), a Goddess of war. )
( no , that is not a nasty comment .. for those that dont get the connection ... its to do with the mythology of the Upper Egyptian version; Sekhmet ... as long as it is realised she is (in both Upper and Lowe Egypt), a Goddess of war. )
Zephyros
Would you like a 'raspberry' beer with that ?
( no , that is not a nasty comment .. for those that dont get the connection ... its to do with the mythology of the Upper Egyptian version; Sekhmet ... as long as it is realised she is (in both Upper and Lowe Egypt), a Goddess of war. )
Wasn't she transformed by the beer into Hathor, the Lady of Love? That's what happened in the version I read. The story actually lends some creedence to the idea that the great archetypes have existed since time immemorial. Venus, too (and as an extension the Empress) is also depicted as a warrior goddess. This relates to the violence of love, the clashing of wills, the power of nature, etc. In both figures there is in any case a kind of reckless abandon, perhaps madness.
