Tarot of Marseilles help desk (Frequently Asked Questions): Non-History

Thanks Mari....

I will definitely check it out!

Luna

A book with some guidance can be written. And it will be written. And it will be a useful addition to the literature available.

But the Tarot of Marseille is a Journey of Self-Discovery.... it is a road full of frustration, and great great satisfaction. No-one can make the journey for you.

It is a road full of enigmatic hieroglyphics that one puzzles over... one day you find one clue, which leads to another, which leads to another.

No-one has the right answers, and no-one has the wrong answers.

It is like looking for a needle in a haystack. I agree wholeheartedly. But do you have an idea what kind of needle you are going to find?

Not a silly old metal needle. One that is made of pure gold. Encrusted with rubies and emeralds. One that when you take it gently into your hand, will grow before your eyes into a Sword.

In the Tarot of Marseille is the wisdom of the Ancients... It will take many lifetimes to get even close to the heart of it.

But do not despair, for you are the Bateleur!!!! Did you hear me? The Bateleur is you, and you have all the tools at your disposal.

Now fold up your three-legged table and go and meet the Papess. She is waiting patiently for you. But do not worry - she will wait forever for you, for she has eternity ahead of her.

Thank you, Rusty and Diana, for being so helpful....

Luna

lunakasha said:

Here is my analogy: Imagine that you are trying to complete a research paper...and someone hands you a huge, thick reference book without any real system of organization--entries are not listed alphabetically, but randomly....there is no "Table of Contents" or "Index" to help you find the specific information you need....so the only way to find it is by reading through page after page until maybe you stumble upon your answer. Let's say that this is the only book available on the subject.

Personally, after a couple of hours of frustration, I would probably throw the book across the room and find another topic to research!

Click to expand...

Hi, Luna --

Following in the spirit of Diana's post, here is how I would suggest you (and anyone else who feels similarly frustrated) proceed.

A) sit down at a table, on which you have placed a Marseille deck and a pen and paper.

B) On the paper, write down the four suits in a column:

Batons
Cups
Swords
Coins

C) following each suit, write down a few keywords or phrases of what that suit will mean.

D) Write down the numbers and courts in a column:

Ace
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
Page
Knight
Queen
King

E) After each number/court, write a few keywords or phrases on what each number/court will mean. You can base the words or phrases on anything. You can use simple numerology, based on numerology meanings you may have read in books, or that you find on the Aeclectic forums (search for "numerology"), or that you find online. You can base the meanings on astrology, or on meanings from the Major Arcana.

For the Court cards, same thing, decide on what each rank means (for example, here's one set of meanings from Gail Fairfield: Page = risking, Knight = focusing, Queen = maturing, King = releasing). As an alternative, you can regard them as 16 separate personalities based on how you read other decks, or based on how the pictures look to you.

F) To read the Minors, you combine the suit meaning with the number/court rank meaning. For example, if 7's are mystery and Cups are emotions, then the 7 of Cups is an emotional mystery or confusion over emotions.

G) When you're looking at a specific card, you can also choose to use the image (i.e. the arrangement of suit symbols and/or the floral decorations) as an added interpretive factor. However, I personally believe that this factor is not something that can be listed and memorized for each card. I think it's something that works best by allowing your mind to make an intuitive leap in a particular context. For example, jmd once wrote that in a specific reading, the image of the 4 of Coins suggested to him the four wheels of a car. I think this meaning just sort of jumped out at him from a particular reading where such an interpretation would have made sense. It's a great interpretation, but that doesn't mean you should memorize "car" for the 4 of Coins. Just look at a card, in the context of the question and the position layout, and neighboring cards, and see if anything comes to you from the image.

H) Try doing a few three-card readings using this method.

In my opinion, after following these steps, you know now everything that anyone else here knows about reading Marseille pips. The only thing the "Marseille experts" have that you don't is experience, and that's only gained by practice.

I hope I don't sound snarky in this post, but I'm puzzled when people ask for "information." There really isn't any information other than what I've written here in this post. If you want to see people doing it as an example, then just go to the H&I forum index and look for the practice reading spreads that Rusty Neon started. Those posts will give you an excellent idea of how to go about doing it. But I don't think there's a body of knowledge out there for you to find. I think the general methodology is relatively simple. Just grab a deck and start laying out cards.

If you hunger for more, then I can only say that I've spend many pleasurable hours wandering around in old posts and threads, using the Search feature or just scanning down the forum index. I don't see it as any big chore. It's fun. You can get a good start by following the links people have already listed in this thread.

Hope this helps --
Lee

THANK YOU Lee!!!!!

That sounds like something I can work with....get my feet wet!
Sounds like a great way of getting to know the cards and defining them for myself.
I am beginning to think that this would be the best place for me to start (and I think Diana, you were trying to tell me the same thing...right? ).

Thanks again, Lee....I also want to get Gail's book ASAP, sounds like it has some of what I'm looking for re: suits, symbols, etc.

Luna

Brilliant post Lee

This is just what people want - to get started - I think the history bit comes a bit later - maybe after your first marseilles deck.

[moderator note: as a number of intervening posts have been removed, there is a break in the flow of posts - please keep in mind as you read on. jmd]

You don't need all those fancy things.

What you need is a tool that is provided for you already in the Tarot of Marseille. It is the Hermit's lantern....

In one of the old Historical decks (I forget which one now), the Hermit was not carrying a lantern... but an hourglass. An hourglass symbolises Father Time. I repeat, Father Time.

The frustration some of you are feeling is Le Pendu (Hanged Man)... reversed.

Jewelry: when you saw in one of my posts that the Hanged Man's rope is the rope around Justice's neck (I suppose that is what you are referring to in your post??) - do not believe me. Don't believe anything anyone tells you about the Marseille.

Believe it only if you know IN YOUR HEART that it is true. Intellectualising the Tarot of Marseille is important. But the heart has to follow. If it doesn't, it's all in vain.

Swords for the intellect, Cups for the Heart. Batons for the courage and energy needed to sustain you on your Journey. The Deniers will help you make sure you don't fall into any false mysticism. They will keep you grounded.

If one doesn't understand numbers... a BASIC understanding, I mean, one will never understand the Tarot. And as Lee so rightly pointed out, one can refer to the Major Arcana here. Because the understanding one has of the Major Arcana will aid us to INTUITIVELY understand the minors.

(Don't forget, these are not CARDS, they are ARCANA.)

Of course you are all frustrated. The Tarot of Marseille is testing you.

Are you worthy of it? Of course you are. Each and every one of you. Your final destination is the World. Never ever doubt that.

Now, light your lanterns. They will not guide you if they are not lit.

The Tarot de Marseille (TdM) is not as complex as it may seem. Lee's suggestions above are a good starting point. To properly understand the RWS and its background and symbolism, you need to know Golden Dawn materials, as that deck was created in that context. To properly understand the Thoth and its background and symbolism, you need to know Crowley's materials as well as GD materials, as that deck was created in that context. However, the TdM has only the esoteric content you give it.

As regards the TdM, I prefer an intuitive approach. I feel more free to do this in the case of the TdM than in the case of the RWS or Thoth.

As regards the TdM minor arcana, the benefit of most of the books in French on the TdM, even the good books, is that they point out the details that are unique to a particular card and differences between that card and other cards across the suit and elsewhere in the minor arcana. Those books also give the author's take on the energies of the card as portrayed by card details. Cards are discussed in terms of number and suit and card detail. They're also fun books to browse through.

However, anything in those books is a suggestion, just a suggestion. No one tarot author has the monopoly on what is correct. It's important, though, to always remember that their intuition and observations aren't necessarily the "right" ones nor necessarily better than our own.

I would like to point out that I believe absolutely and without a shadow of a doubt, i.e. with an unshakable conviction, that the Tarot of Marseille was designed to impart great esoteric knowledge and wisdom. That it was hidden in the cards to prevent it from being destroyed by the enemies of this wisdom. (These enemies still abound.)

Which must not stop us from giving it our own personal esoteric content.

I hope that in my lifetime, I will be able to understand one tiny fraction of what the Ancients wanted to share with us, because I know that I will be allowed to take this knowledge with me when it is time for me to pass on and that even if it only one tiny ounce of gold, it will be worth all earthly treasures I will leave behind.

Whatever inherent esoteric content the TdM has, the TdM is unobtrusive enough to let us interpret the cards using our own personal esoterical viewpoints. I find it more difficult to do so in the case of RWS -- and considerably more difficult in the case of the Thoth whose symbolism is very much the personal philosophy and symbol set of Crowley, its creator.