Where does "True Will" come from?

Karrma

This term is frequently thrown about, and although (theoretically) I know what it means I don't know where it comes from. Who decides your Will? Is it even decided? If you have a true essence, HGA, what made them or how? The simplistic answer is that you were born with it, but that doesn't answer the questions.

The less simplistic answer, which I prefer, is that Will is not absolute, but you must constantly rediscover it. But that still doesn't answer the question of what makes it the "true" Will. Who decides what is true?

ETA: I found a kind of answer here

http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot.co.il/2011/06/skeptical-of-true-will.html

In a nutshell, nobody decides what is true. :)

What is HGA?
 

zhan.thay

Holy Guardian Angel
 

Richard

It is the faculty which makes us cognizant of our true will.
 

Zephyros

But I still don't understand... I mean... do the Fates sit somewhere and cut thread like the Greeks believed? Is it like DNA, in which the respective Nuit and respective Hadit bring in their influences? In all I've read, Crowley himself seems to deflect this most obvious question. Do your Will, okay, I can get behind that. But who decided it was my "true" will? And if it was decided, is it really my own? Or is this question so obvious it need not be asked?

Obviously there can be no satisfactory answer, but even an unsatisfactory one is better than none.
 

yogiman

Of course, we know why the golden ratio is exhibited all over the pentagram. This can be demonstrated by trigonometry.

We know why the earth is not flat, because when you walk in a straight line you will return to the point of departure.

Why is the ratio so universal in natural growth patterns?

It's the golden mean, because symbolically it is the mean=mediator between earth and heaven, which can be shown mathematically. Organisms are also a mean between heaven and earth.
 

Richard

But I still don't understand... I mean... do the Fates sit somewhere and cut thread like the Greeks believed? Is it like DNA, in which the respective Nuit and respective Hadit bring in their influences? In all I've read, Crowley himself seems to deflect this most obvious question. Do your Will, okay, I can get behind that. But who decided it was my "true" will? And if it was decided, is it really my own? Or is this question so obvious it need not be asked?

Obviously there can be no satisfactory answer, but even an unsatisfactory one is better than none.
Jung was convinced that there is a self, distinct from the ego. It is discussed in his book Mysterium Conjunctionis. I'm rusty on the details, but at the time I read it, I became convinced that such a thing exists. Of course, this does not help in the determination of what is or is not our true will.
 

yogiman

Offtopic, it could be that Crowley is more realistic than Carl Jung, but Jung I find much more clear and agreeable.

A long time ago I was active on a Jung forum, and one of the elder participants claimed that she had friendship with a daughter of Jung, and that's how she learned that Jung himself was using the Thoth tarot.
 

ravenest

But I still don't understand... I mean... do the Fates sit somewhere and cut thread like the Greeks believed? Is it like DNA, in which the respective Nuit and respective Hadit bring in their influences? In all I've read, Crowley himself seems to deflect this most obvious question. Do your Will, okay, I can get behind that. But who decided it was my "true" will? And if it was decided, is it really my own? Or is this question so obvious it need not be asked?

Yes ... to all the above.

There are threads here where I discussed this (and others did) I had some theories, and observations from the armchair and life's experience with myself and others ... the elder that have accomplished and the younger that were seeking.

of course they were challenged and questioned ... and twisted a bit and subverted and confused for reasons of ... well, you know. 'They' don't seem to be around any more (they probably went off to do their true will :) ) ... others are here that may do the same .... <shrug>

here is a start .... are you still bored C ... ?


Obviously there can be no satisfactory answer, but even an unsatisfactory one is better than none.

Lets play a game and start with a premise that there CAN be a satisfactory answer ... cant loose as if I am wrong you have already settled for an unsatisfactory answer.
 

Karrma

This term is frequently thrown about, and although (theoretically) I know what it means I don't know where it comes from. Who decides your Will? Is it even decided? If you have a true essence, HGA, what made them or how? The simplistic answer is that you were born with it, but that doesn't answer the questions.

The less simplistic answer, which I prefer, is that Will is not absolute, but you must constantly rediscover it. But that still doesn't answer the question of what makes it the "true" Will. Who decides what is true?

ETA: I found a kind of answer here

http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot.co.il/2011/06/skeptical-of-true-will.html

In a nutshell, nobody decides what is true. :)

So on one hand here, is one question WILL versus FATE.
And on the other, is "true" will a static thing decided prior to birth, or can it change? For me, there is a static feeling to fate, no matter what we do, it was pre-determined. Will on the other hand, needs action, mental or physical or spiritual, and due to that, some sort of growth or change, growing in one area, and killing off or losing another, as we proceed through this life. There seems to be an internal contradiction to me if True Will does not have the ability to change or develop.

Could another term for true will be internal will? If I really look deep inside me, trying to bypass all the external information and noise? And this internal will then could change, as the environment around me changes?
 

Zephyros

of course they were challenged and questioned ... and twisted a bit and subverted and confused for reasons of ... well, you know. 'They' don't seem to be around any more (they probably went off to do their true will :) ) ... others are here that may do the same .... <shrug>

here is a start .... are you still bored C ... ?

Lets play a game and start with a premise that there CAN be a satisfactory answer ... cant loose as if I am wrong you have already settled for an unsatisfactory answer.

Always up for a game! It'll save me from my morbid thoughts of sex and Death I'm forcing myself to think about right now.