Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Live Tarot Readings Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

The Book of the Law Study Group 3.3

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Thoth Tarot


 
by zero's Avatar
by zero  by zero is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 12 Jun 2010
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 92
by zero 
Resident

by zero's Avatar

Top   #51
TarotCraft's Avatar
TarotCraft  TarotCraft is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 150
TarotCraft 
Citizen

TarotCraft's Avatar

Too funny, Aeon!
Top   #52
Bat Chicken's Avatar
Bat Chicken  Bat Chicken is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 28 Feb 2006
Location: Imagination
Posts: 6,775
Bat Chicken 
Citizen

Bat Chicken's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Wondering
I am laughing too hard to offer any clever or witty response. I can barely type anyways.

AW
Ditto!
Top   #53
Grigori's Avatar
Grigori  Grigori is offline
formerly similia
 
Join Date: 11 Dec 2004
Location: Aussie boy, born and bred
Posts: 7,658
Grigori 
formerly similia

Grigori's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
And, once again, I will point you in the direction of the Book of Thoth and the chapter on Adjustment. A card that Crowley felt compelled to rename because the old title, Justice, was mixed up with limited human ideas on the subject.
Your definition sounds more like Exodus 21, with the empasis on the final actions. And it's all bound up with petty human ideas of revenge. If only karma were that simple.
Yes, that is my problem. The word Vengeance is I think a better expression of petty human concepts, so it seems out of place. Maybe RHK is allowed to be petty though, seems the plight of all personable gods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenest
Look, do you agree with vengeance or not?
If not, please PM me your credit card numbers and info.
I guess that depends on who is doing the venging and why.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenest
Very interesting question. Where IS it in BoL, directly and clearly for us non-adepts? - I believe that is why Crowley developed the OTO. In the rites of that Order (and the public documents) there appears to be advice on some very relevant aspects of social actions of a Thelemite.
Thanks R, it's useful to think of it from that perspective again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
KY Jelly
So many of these verses come back to lubricant for me. Freud would have something to say about that no doubt
Top   #54
Aeon418's Avatar
Aeon418  Aeon418 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,342
Aeon418 
Citizen

Aeon418's Avatar

Quote:
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
I think we need some industrial strength KY for this job. If this fails there's nothing left but the full Colonic Irrigation. And you really don't want to go there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grigori
I guess that depends on who is doing the venging and why.
You! You! YOU!

At each step on the path you are trying to connect with the same force, but your position on the path determines how you will experience and perceive that force.

Atu XI Lust is a symbolic representation of the energy that flows through a HGA-ized Adept. They are at a level of self development where that much "juice" doesn't fry them anymore. Their perfected elemental temple no longer presents resistance to it. They are a conduit for this force of LVX.

But what happens when someone who is not at this level of self-development taps into this same force? Do they experience it as Atu XI? Of course they don't. They are not ready for that. Instead they experience it as Atu XVI The Tower. Their un-prepared elemental self presents a massive amount of resistance to LVX. It's almost as if they've stuck their finger in a light socket, and now they are being fried. This is the "trial by fire" for the pre-Adept. His/her job is to work on those flawed aspects of their elemental self that are out of line with their will, and present a blockage to LVX. Until that is accomplished the Solar/LVX Hoor-Ra is perceived as Martial Hoor-Apep - Horus the Destroyer! Horus the Avenger!

Does that help you understand it any better, Grigori?
Top   #55
Aeon418's Avatar
Aeon418  Aeon418 is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,342
Aeon418 
Citizen

Aeon418's Avatar

Quote:
Mark 2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.
Quote:
The corrupt structures we have errected, whether due to the inheritance of our Fathers, or by our own fallacious labors, must be rejected and torn down. In the same sense that the card [The Tower] represents the destruction of the Old Aeon by the fire of Horus, so too does it represent the destruction of the "existing material," the "dross" of the aspirant to Initiation.

Initiation in the Aeon of the Child
The old you has to go. It can't handle LVX in it's current state. The old temple must be destroyed and re-built. Better. Stronger. Faster.
Just like this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HofoK_QQxGc


Quote:
AL 2:70.....Wisdom says: be strong! Then canst thou bear more joy.
Top   #56
TarotCraft's Avatar
TarotCraft  TarotCraft is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 150
TarotCraft 
Citizen

TarotCraft's Avatar

Aeon - when you refer to the 'elemental self', are you referring to the ego/personality?
Top   #57
TarotCraft's Avatar
TarotCraft  TarotCraft is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 150
TarotCraft 
Citizen

TarotCraft's Avatar

The Great Work requires destruction (Solve) before construction (Coagula) can occur. War and Vengeance = Solve.
Top   #58
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
Didn't we cover this in the first chapter study threads? We pointed out how A.'.A.'. material is devoid of this kind of guidance, but the O.T.O. papers are packed with it. Crowley knew that, "Do what thou wilt", simply wasn't enough for most people. They still needed a guiding framework at the beginning to stop them from getting it badly wrong.
Yep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
Given what's just been said above, who is most likely to make a "great miss" when it comes to mundane, literal interpretations?
Oh ... I dont know ... um The Nationalist Socialist Hippy Party ... um, someone that just picks up this book and reads it for the first time with no understanding of symbolism and metaphor? I was relating to G's comment above when I wrote this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
So it's not all words of the HGA? That's probabaly true until you've passed the second ordeal.
What I meant was, { again responding to G's comment ;Originally Posted by Grigori. "Perhaps this can be read that you may encounter War and Vengeance, rather than you as a person 'should' embody or aspire to these qualities." } I have met people who seem to act like they believe that they should aspire to these qualities - urk! All I'm saying, simply is that they may be multiple levels of understanding AS WELL as or ASIDE FROM those that you penetrate, I dont believe there is just one. The lessons in life to learn all this come from multiple angles and sources (well, for me and I observe it with my personal magical work with others) and you might experientially learn the same lessons from a variety of interpretations, sources, metaphors and experience. But the basis is the evolution of the individual under the, at first subtle and perhaps unseen direction of the HGA and later, perhaps a more direct and acknowledged experience.

I guess the main point I was trying to express in my agreement with G is YES! DO see that there are other ways of understanding this book (especially Ch 3 !) other than what it first might appear to be telling you. AND you might come to that understanding via diverse life experience as well as, or instead of a gematric computation and relationship (especially if its not a right one - considering the flexiblity of how one arives at a gematric conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
Crowley had a lot of good things to say in that intro, but some of his other writings in the same vein are just plain dumb and reveal a lot about his attitude towards chapter III. To Crowley's mind, if there were one chapter in Liber AL that contained "prophecy", it was the 3rd chapter. He was always looking for literal manifestations of this chapters message as a kind of proof of the revelation.

Is III:43 a description of the fate of Crowley's first wife, Rose? Er...sort of.

Is III:12-15 a prophecy concerning the death of Crowley's kids? Er...maybe.

Was Gerald Yorke the "rich man from the West"? Possibly. But if he was it didn't stop Crowley looking for another one. Hmmmm....

Liber CCC Khabs Am Pekht contains an absolute gem. In it Crowley gives an interpretation of the Island in III:4. Yes, it's England. And the enginery of war is tanks and land mines. Yeah.....

This is the kind of stuff that people constantly do with the Quatraines of Nostradamus. 1999 came and went, and we're still here.

I am the warrior lord of the Forties......... Nuclear bombs? How obvious... *sigh*
I dont see what good those literal interpretations would do me even if they were acurate, for AC they may have helped? Nuclear bombs in the 40's??? Nah, more like the 80's cower before me
Top   #59
ravenest's Avatar
ravenest  ravenest is offline
ravenator
 
Join Date: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 13,835
ravenest 
ravenator

ravenest's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
Yes, but this is a mundane, outer manifestation of what I was talking about.
Yes and I am using a mundane outer analogy to describe an internal process. IF you progress on this path dont expect to be let off with a smack on the wrist and continue. I think we have all discoverd RHK isnt like that. I'd say, EXPECT to be tracked down, eventually, you wont get away with it, sooner or later you will have to sort it out. (Thats a mundane metaphor too )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
You know as well as I that in Thelema we view the Will as our path, our chosen orbit through the body of Nuit. But what happens when you try to deviate from that path? Corrective Karma. Is it punishment? No. It's basically a case of you pushing against the universe and the universe, seeking to re-balance the scales, pushes back.
Yep, If you expect it not to, even if it doesnt at first, eventually you will find yourself in a situation you cant progress through that 'push' if you still dont get it it wont go away until you do.

This chapter uses certain metaphors, it uses STRONG metaphors it doesnt say, "I am RHK, if you push against the universe it will seek re-balance and push back". A great analogy and way of understanding the metaphor I'll grant but not a metaphor as stong as the first. One is sorta like karma (as G. pointed out above; he can dig that) the other is vengence, (which many people need to really analyse and come to terms with, like a LOT of Ch 3 and thats why its written with these strong metaphors. Ch 1 is a lovely place to be (like 0 deg. - Minerval in OTO - just another analogy :smile by the time one progresses to CH 3 MUCH more is going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
But there are no absolute standards of right and wrong. An act that may tip the scales for one person, might not for another. Does act X conform or deviate from the Will? It all depends on the Will of the individual involved and the circumstances they find themselves in. Conventional notions of right & wrong, good & evil, don't enter into it.
Haven't we discussed this many times before?
No problem. Repeating things reminds all of us familiar with the threads and helps new readers, who, might just be coming in on the last page to have a look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418
Of course we also have to deal with the illusion of free will. (Don't confuse with True Will.) You're free to do whatever you want, right? Wrong!
In a sense you can exercise your free will and deviate from your True Will, until you get a karmic nudge.
Somewhere in Magick Without Tears Crowley compares the Will to a toboggan run. Your path/fate is laid out before you. But you can use your sense of free will to bash yourself into the walls all the way to the end if you like. But don't cry when you get a headache and feel sick half way down.
Why not? If I do I'll try again. And again. I'll get coaching, I'll get skill, I'll man up and stop crying, then I will have a toboggan run 'war engine'. And then weeeeeeeeee, wont I be having fun! And if it IS my true will to be a toboggon racer I will have achieved it! A few scars, so what.

And a note to those that might be confused. I am not approaching these threads as others are, THEY are doing that and offering their experience and gnosis in various ways. They are doing a fine job but I am hoping to read others views ASIDE from gematria and direct references to the HGA and its general and relative work in many of us that are not a certain degree or grade in this or that. The New Aeon is at work in many of us and I have often found value in their understanding and gnosis. Of course, if they are way off, that might lead others astray, but those sort of posters are usually hunted down ... with a vengence
Top   #60


 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.