Mimers
Posted by jmd on 24-03-2003 23:04:
May I suggest, with regards to the twos, some attention be also paid especially to their function in providing the purchaser knowing something of the publisher. In most decks, this occurs with the two of Coins - though in some, it is (also) the two of Cups.
In each card, however, there is a simplicity which in many ways 'indroduces' the way more tools will be depicted, and which shows their difference from the Aces.
And how do we tell if they are each reversed? do the buds, vines and plant-life provide for particular details worth further meditation.
Posted by ihcoyc on 25-03-2003 00:26:
The ribbon that appears on the 2 of Coins seems to have been a symbol that some have made much of. Pamela Colman Smith made it into a lemniscus / infinity sign, and preserved it --- though not the text --- on her deck.
The tradition of using the 2 of Coins and Cups to name the card maker was preserved on the 17th century Tarot de Paris, although the shape on the 2 of Cups is different, it is only a lozenge; and the space for actually including the name is left blank on this deck. The tradition is preserved also in non-Marseilles traditional decks like the Ancient Italian Tarot and the Swiss 1JJ deck.
Posted by Diana on 25-03-2003 08:35:
Think of the number 2. Forget the element for the moment. But what does a 2 mean to you? What does it evoke? Look at how the different elements (cups, swords, batons and deniers) are placed on the card - vertically, horizontally? Would that make a difference in how you interpret them? If not, why not? Look at that crazy 2 of Cups? Why does is have that red (in the Grimaud) big band on the bottom? And why is it red? Fish? Why fish? (Perhaps because fish and water go well together? Perhaps.....)
Posted by skytwig on 25-03-2003 20:22:
twig comments: Mirrors - isn't it interesting that we can't see our own faces? (I used to try as a child; was totally befuddled by this body container in which I found myself.) Do mirrors and twos indicate something about our stay here on this planet? Is it possible that in another 'place' we CAN see our faces? what would life be like if we could - directly I mean.
Also, it is interesting that our two sides of face are not the same!!
And, isn't it intriguing that we, as humans, are so 2 oriented? 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 sides of brain...... 2 parties of gov; 2 sides to a war; 2 sides to every story; 2 parents of a child; 2 sides of the I CHING; 2 colors of checkers.....
Mirrors bring to mind Alice jumping through the Looking Glass. One thing I have 'remembered' is that, on Earth, everything IS opposite to what it seems..... OR SO IT SEEMS TO ME......
2 is balance, yes, but what is the center of that balance: One? or is it the energy of the 2?
Posted by Khatruman on 25-03-2003 23:18:
I'm not really sure about the mirror imagery that Diana is getting at. Seems there is a symmetry like that in all the two's here. I do see a difference in the coins, in that the two coins are one above the other, rather than side by side, but there is a symmetrical balance in all the two's
Posted by skytwig on 25-03-2003 23:47:
COLORS
As a Reiki healer and a mover of energy within meridians and chakras, I notice the colors right off the bat. Yellow is the solar plexus, where our will arises. Red is the root chakra, from which life ascends. Energy, survival. Group thinking. Blue is the throat chakra, communication. Black has to be Shadow, or all colors (to me). White is Light. the Unknown. The Eternal Question/Answer. The aforementioned colors lie upon this field of White. As if it is a drawing upon Spirit or a dance within it.
Posted by Mimers on 27-03-2003 06:37: (commenting on Skytwig’s observations)
Before I delved into each card of the 2's I first wrote down some thoughts about 2's in general. Let's see, I wrote:
blending, coming together of opposites. I think of the = sign. You have one part and the other, the equal sign blends them together in the equation and then you get 3.
Posted by ihcoyc on 27-03-2003 20:28:
Perhaps it might also pay to consider the zoomorphic filigree patterns you see in the Book of Kells and similar illuminated manuscripts and Teutonic and Celtic art in connection with the attention we've so far been paying to the decorations. Is there a language there? and if so, how is it read? The 2 of Cups seems unique in featuring a heraldic or decorative beast; I don't know of any animals that appear in any of the others.
Posted by Moongold on 29-03-2003 07:10:
I think that 2 is a very slinky, sensuous number. Look at the way it curves. So graceful. Amost a Yoga like position but Yoga doesn't seem quite right because it is usually a solitary activity. Two means two, more than one. And two in harmony.
And something else I've just noticed. How the figure two just grows, curves gracefully out of the one. I've never thought of numbers like that. They are actually images in their own right. Elemental simplicity.
Posted by Diana on 29-03-2003 13:23:
Moongold: It is a very enriching exercice to look at the shape of numbers. I'm glad you brought this up! The two is quite fascinating. It has a solid base - very sturdy. And then it rises up to the sky - reaching up to spirituality, but then it curves down again - out of nostalgia? fear? or because it would like to do a full circle but can't quite make it? It's base goes right - to the future, but at the top it goes left - it goes towards the past (duality again). It is a sentimental number, which is why it doesn't feel to happy when it's in an Air element which is more decisive, and feels very much at ease in the Water element where it enjoys the fluidity of water. Does it like the Earth element and the Fire element? Anyone want to give their opinion?
Posted by HOLMES on 29-03-2003 17:29:
the two manifested in the elemental world.
as it pertains to fire, air, cups, and physical, as it mean to the reader to me i see them as spiritual, mental, emotional and actual physical level of beings and ways we live.
two to me means harmony, and reversed disharmony
it also means to me the highpriestress manifest in the physical world to reveal secrets and to use one own unition.
my first look at all these four cards from the attachement is they are all symetrical like yin and yang , except for the two of cups. two of swords……
……. the swords are much more like the staff then previsouly mentioned as their are two handle to hold the blade, but it is an weapon in the middle and in the ends.
(one can see the klingon weapons from the star trek the new generation to understand how it moves )
this is fitting as they are both the higher suit as it comes from coming from the sourch through the body, spirit, mind, then emotions then pentacles.
the colour blue evidently also has an connection with the throat center, so by expressing peace , you bring peace, it is theorized and idealized, is it so, only through harmonizing all four aspects of ourself can it be for the individual .
Posted by Aerin on 30-03-2003 11:19:
2 usually makes me think about choices, which can blend or oppose or sometimes just stand alongside each other……
…… Both wands and swords are very symmetrical with respect to the horizontal and vertical midlines. The cups only along the vertical midline.
Posted by skytwig on 31-03-2003 22:58:
Polarity
From The Mythic Tarot: " The twos in all four suits of the Minor arcana represent a polarization of the initial raw energy of the Aces."
Websters: Polarity:
1. the quality or condition inherent in a body that exhibits opposite properties or powers in opposite parts or directions or that exhibits contrasted properties or powers in contrasted parts of directions.
2. attraction toward a particular object or in a specific direction
3. the particular state, either positive or negative, with reference to the two poles or to electirfication
SYNERGY: The total is greater than the sum of the two!!!
What stands out for me is the quality of polarization in the twos. When i picked up the Mythic Tarot, yesterday, I was struck by the above quoted statement.
For me, polarization is very much a synergistic occurrence. Something greater, than the sum of the two, arises, 'appears on the scene', comes into being. Is it as if a third being appears or is it that the two beings/things have become something larger?
I personally do not believe in the idea that another person can make me whole, but i do believe that the experience of relationship can create its own life; another life, if you will.....
Posted by skytwig on 03-04-2003 09:47:
I was considering the 2s last night and it struck me that two is truly a representation of our initial 'birth' experience. For the first time, we discover we are not alone. there is someone else or some thing else, be that an idea or a thought or a creative possibility.
I keep bringing up polarity because i feel that is the dynamic energy of the 2 card. As a child i played with these teeny magnetic scottie dogs, one black, one white. They moved together or apart, depending on the magnetic energy dancing between them. It was my introduction to polarity; to the forces of TWO!
I think it is interesting that the two of WANDS cross in the middle, whereas, the TWO of swords cross in 2 places, top and bottom, as if thought creates more thought and creative energy (wands) arises directly from a centered energy, our inner energy.
May I suggest, with regards to the twos, some attention be also paid especially to their function in providing the purchaser knowing something of the publisher. In most decks, this occurs with the two of Coins - though in some, it is (also) the two of Cups.
In each card, however, there is a simplicity which in many ways 'indroduces' the way more tools will be depicted, and which shows their difference from the Aces.
And how do we tell if they are each reversed? do the buds, vines and plant-life provide for particular details worth further meditation.
Posted by ihcoyc on 25-03-2003 00:26:
The ribbon that appears on the 2 of Coins seems to have been a symbol that some have made much of. Pamela Colman Smith made it into a lemniscus / infinity sign, and preserved it --- though not the text --- on her deck.
The tradition of using the 2 of Coins and Cups to name the card maker was preserved on the 17th century Tarot de Paris, although the shape on the 2 of Cups is different, it is only a lozenge; and the space for actually including the name is left blank on this deck. The tradition is preserved also in non-Marseilles traditional decks like the Ancient Italian Tarot and the Swiss 1JJ deck.
Posted by Diana on 25-03-2003 08:35:
Think of the number 2. Forget the element for the moment. But what does a 2 mean to you? What does it evoke? Look at how the different elements (cups, swords, batons and deniers) are placed on the card - vertically, horizontally? Would that make a difference in how you interpret them? If not, why not? Look at that crazy 2 of Cups? Why does is have that red (in the Grimaud) big band on the bottom? And why is it red? Fish? Why fish? (Perhaps because fish and water go well together? Perhaps.....)
Posted by skytwig on 25-03-2003 20:22:
twig comments: Mirrors - isn't it interesting that we can't see our own faces? (I used to try as a child; was totally befuddled by this body container in which I found myself.) Do mirrors and twos indicate something about our stay here on this planet? Is it possible that in another 'place' we CAN see our faces? what would life be like if we could - directly I mean.
Also, it is interesting that our two sides of face are not the same!!
And, isn't it intriguing that we, as humans, are so 2 oriented? 2 eyes, 2 ears, 2 sides of brain...... 2 parties of gov; 2 sides to a war; 2 sides to every story; 2 parents of a child; 2 sides of the I CHING; 2 colors of checkers.....
Mirrors bring to mind Alice jumping through the Looking Glass. One thing I have 'remembered' is that, on Earth, everything IS opposite to what it seems..... OR SO IT SEEMS TO ME......
2 is balance, yes, but what is the center of that balance: One? or is it the energy of the 2?
Posted by Khatruman on 25-03-2003 23:18:
I'm not really sure about the mirror imagery that Diana is getting at. Seems there is a symmetry like that in all the two's here. I do see a difference in the coins, in that the two coins are one above the other, rather than side by side, but there is a symmetrical balance in all the two's
Posted by skytwig on 25-03-2003 23:47:
COLORS
As a Reiki healer and a mover of energy within meridians and chakras, I notice the colors right off the bat. Yellow is the solar plexus, where our will arises. Red is the root chakra, from which life ascends. Energy, survival. Group thinking. Blue is the throat chakra, communication. Black has to be Shadow, or all colors (to me). White is Light. the Unknown. The Eternal Question/Answer. The aforementioned colors lie upon this field of White. As if it is a drawing upon Spirit or a dance within it.
Posted by Mimers on 27-03-2003 06:37: (commenting on Skytwig’s observations)
Before I delved into each card of the 2's I first wrote down some thoughts about 2's in general. Let's see, I wrote:
blending, coming together of opposites. I think of the = sign. You have one part and the other, the equal sign blends them together in the equation and then you get 3.
Posted by ihcoyc on 27-03-2003 20:28:
Perhaps it might also pay to consider the zoomorphic filigree patterns you see in the Book of Kells and similar illuminated manuscripts and Teutonic and Celtic art in connection with the attention we've so far been paying to the decorations. Is there a language there? and if so, how is it read? The 2 of Cups seems unique in featuring a heraldic or decorative beast; I don't know of any animals that appear in any of the others.
Posted by Moongold on 29-03-2003 07:10:
I think that 2 is a very slinky, sensuous number. Look at the way it curves. So graceful. Amost a Yoga like position but Yoga doesn't seem quite right because it is usually a solitary activity. Two means two, more than one. And two in harmony.
And something else I've just noticed. How the figure two just grows, curves gracefully out of the one. I've never thought of numbers like that. They are actually images in their own right. Elemental simplicity.
Posted by Diana on 29-03-2003 13:23:
Moongold: It is a very enriching exercice to look at the shape of numbers. I'm glad you brought this up! The two is quite fascinating. It has a solid base - very sturdy. And then it rises up to the sky - reaching up to spirituality, but then it curves down again - out of nostalgia? fear? or because it would like to do a full circle but can't quite make it? It's base goes right - to the future, but at the top it goes left - it goes towards the past (duality again). It is a sentimental number, which is why it doesn't feel to happy when it's in an Air element which is more decisive, and feels very much at ease in the Water element where it enjoys the fluidity of water. Does it like the Earth element and the Fire element? Anyone want to give their opinion?
Posted by HOLMES on 29-03-2003 17:29:
the two manifested in the elemental world.
as it pertains to fire, air, cups, and physical, as it mean to the reader to me i see them as spiritual, mental, emotional and actual physical level of beings and ways we live.
two to me means harmony, and reversed disharmony
it also means to me the highpriestress manifest in the physical world to reveal secrets and to use one own unition.
my first look at all these four cards from the attachement is they are all symetrical like yin and yang , except for the two of cups. two of swords……
……. the swords are much more like the staff then previsouly mentioned as their are two handle to hold the blade, but it is an weapon in the middle and in the ends.
(one can see the klingon weapons from the star trek the new generation to understand how it moves )
this is fitting as they are both the higher suit as it comes from coming from the sourch through the body, spirit, mind, then emotions then pentacles.
the colour blue evidently also has an connection with the throat center, so by expressing peace , you bring peace, it is theorized and idealized, is it so, only through harmonizing all four aspects of ourself can it be for the individual .
Posted by Aerin on 30-03-2003 11:19:
2 usually makes me think about choices, which can blend or oppose or sometimes just stand alongside each other……
…… Both wands and swords are very symmetrical with respect to the horizontal and vertical midlines. The cups only along the vertical midline.
Posted by skytwig on 31-03-2003 22:58:
Polarity
From The Mythic Tarot: " The twos in all four suits of the Minor arcana represent a polarization of the initial raw energy of the Aces."
Websters: Polarity:
1. the quality or condition inherent in a body that exhibits opposite properties or powers in opposite parts or directions or that exhibits contrasted properties or powers in contrasted parts of directions.
2. attraction toward a particular object or in a specific direction
3. the particular state, either positive or negative, with reference to the two poles or to electirfication
SYNERGY: The total is greater than the sum of the two!!!
What stands out for me is the quality of polarization in the twos. When i picked up the Mythic Tarot, yesterday, I was struck by the above quoted statement.
For me, polarization is very much a synergistic occurrence. Something greater, than the sum of the two, arises, 'appears on the scene', comes into being. Is it as if a third being appears or is it that the two beings/things have become something larger?
I personally do not believe in the idea that another person can make me whole, but i do believe that the experience of relationship can create its own life; another life, if you will.....
Posted by skytwig on 03-04-2003 09:47:
I was considering the 2s last night and it struck me that two is truly a representation of our initial 'birth' experience. For the first time, we discover we are not alone. there is someone else or some thing else, be that an idea or a thought or a creative possibility.
I keep bringing up polarity because i feel that is the dynamic energy of the 2 card. As a child i played with these teeny magnetic scottie dogs, one black, one white. They moved together or apart, depending on the magnetic energy dancing between them. It was my introduction to polarity; to the forces of TWO!
I think it is interesting that the two of WANDS cross in the middle, whereas, the TWO of swords cross in 2 places, top and bottom, as if thought creates more thought and creative energy (wands) arises directly from a centered energy, our inner energy.
. If one assigns meaning in part based on colour usage, should the meaning of a given card be different as between these two decks? In my view, no. This is why, reluctantly, my ongoing personal study of the TdM minor arcana disregards colour usage.