Swords up, swords down

I've recently acquired a Visconti deck and I was surprised to see that that the sword in the Ace points down. This is the only deck I've seen where such happens.

Conversely, throughout the suit, whenever there's an odd number of swords, one of them, located in the center of the picture, points up. Paired swords always point down.

Also, the two of swords, in most modern decks, have the swords pointing up, making an X. In the Visconti deck, the X is uside down.

My question is, is there any symbolism attached to the upright/down orientation of swords?

My particular perception of a sword upright is that of defiance, being ready for a conquest or fight, whereas a sword pointing down signals for a fight/conquest that has been already won.

But that's my ignorant perception of the situation. Any input?

Thanks in advance

Alex.

I think this is a marvelous question and I am sure some of the history buffs here have some insight we could enjoy.....

I went through my thoth dack after reading your post and noticed that the Justice card has a downward pointing sword in dead center of the figure....

also, the Queen of Swords and the Princess of Swords both hold downward pointing swords.....

Ok, symbology hounds...... what does this mean??????

Alex: very interesting question which I wish I had an answer to. I don't have a Visconti deck (*Diana hangs her head in shame and flagellates herself*).

On the Marseilles decks, this situation does not occur. The middle Swords are all upright and the outer Swords, well they are upright and downwards at the same time.

Diana

Is the Ace sword upright too?

Alex.

I went to sacred texts.com to see what I could dig up on swords. I found this:

"Ace of Swords"

A WHITE Radiating Angelic Hand, issuing from clouds, and grasping the hilt of a sword, which supports a White Radiant Celestial Crown; from which depend, on the right, the olive branch of Peace; and on the left, the palm branch of suffering.

Six Vaus fall from its point. It symbolizes "Invoked," as contrasted with Natural Force: for it is the Invocation of the Sword. Raised upward, it invokes the Divine crown of Spiritual Brightness, but reversed it is the Invocation of Demonic Force; and becomes a fearfully evil symbol. It represents, therefore, very great power for good or evil, but invoked; and it also represents whirling Force, and strength through trouble. It is the affirmation of Justice upholding Divine Authority; and it may become the Sword of Wrath, Punishment, and Affliction.

Click to expand...

It was in book 78 of the Thelema texts, which are:

These are texts relating to the philosophy of Thelema, many of them written by the occultist Aleister Crowley who founded the organization A.'. A.'. (Argentium Astrum -- the Silver Star) as well as others by members of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis -- Order of the Eastern Temple) (founded by Theodor Reuss and Karl Kellner in 1895). These two organizations work together to promote Thelema.

Click to expand...

http://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib78.htm

Alex,

I think you have a good point here (get it? 'point') ugh.

I am of the same mind as you here. When the sword is pointing up, I would interpret that as ready for battle or aggressive stance. Pointing down could be already won, or maybe even implying a truce as well.

The upward pointing sword in the odd numbered cards to me represents the element that comes in and 'rocks the boat' of the even card's calmness.

Mimi

This aspect of whether the sword is upright when upright or reversed when upright (... how the use of language, when carefully constructed, is more obfuscating than clarifying )...

Let me start again.

Whether the card is viewed upright when the sword has its point or its hilt upwards seems to be partly based on how swords are also depicted elsewhere.

In an earlier thread (Question on Marseilles Ten of Swords), I mention an analogy of two differing traditions with the viewed uprightness of the horse-shoe.

I tend to agree with comments already made. What I find interesting is that a held sword, unless ritualistically held between the two hands in 'prayer' position, fingers pointing forward, will have its blade pointing up. In the ritualistic position mentioned, the sword, poiting downwards and in the very shape of a cross, becomes tranformed into the 'burden of the cross'.

When the sword is not in usage, it may also be displayed, upon an appropriate holder, with its point down - indicating, it seems to me, both its past usage (the 'retiring' or ageing knight) and, again, the cross.

I have at times wondered whether it was not this which encouraged the development of the curved sword depictions being ambiguous: neither side has hilt - though again, in some Marseilles style decks, the hilts are clearly shown (such as in the Schaffhouse 'Classic' - which I also show in the thread on the Marseille fives)...

The principal reason for the curvature remains, of course, the likely Mamluk origins of the pips, and their depiction of scimitars.

Important and questions which have an apparent simplicity are always the more difficult to answer - not because there isn't an answer, but because part of it may either be 'obvious', lost, or inconsistent. In this case, I do think that the cards' uprightness would have been considered and judged more easily by our predecessors than ourlselves, living as we do in a swordless (to a large extant) world - literally if not, unfortunately, metaphorically.

I find it very disheartening when I see swords pointing down, especially the Ace of Swords.

Unless the sword which is pointing down, is also rooted in something, say perhaps in a stone, the sword in the stone -- and being bravely retrieved, then it retains its power.

You know, looking at the sword in the Justice card of Thoth, I see a stability, a finality.... as if the card says, "Thus, it is done!"

I know the quote I inserted 'points' to an evil aspect in the downward pointing sword, but I really think it goes beyond that. How can a downward pointing sword be considered evil when it is not raised in an attack mode?

Think of holding a sword... they tend to be huge! When it is down, there is a peace about it, a non threat. there is less fear when a sword is held with its point in the dirt.

But, there is a potential threat, obviously, because the blade is extremely sharp..... There is the sense that if one were to upset the sword holder, all h*** could break lose..... So, is the downward pointing sword a symbol of power and containment of that power?

Sword pointing downward to me would mean end of discussion,there's no room for any other thoughts! I think the author of this deck mabee had some problems & was playing a joke on us all, we know up is positive so why point anything downward?