Pips (suits) associations Dodal deck

Yes I know there are piles of threads on this. I have read them. I've also read books, online sites and done my own studies.. I'm curious as to how others see this.

Since I just received my full Dodal, I am going through each card. I write down my physical description of each card. Any observations or feelings about it. Then possible meanings for each.. I'm now starting on the pips.

Pips I use the same method but also have associations or aspects. Elemental associations are very loose for me but help me to remember intellect, emotion, spirit, and physical. I've looked at these six ways to Sunday and find that no matter what I am firm in seeing this relationship.

Cups: emotional (water), heart level, church love higher learning (occupations)
Swords: intellect (fire), brow level, warriors nobility authority
Wands: physical (earth), groin level, peasants servants labour
Coins: spiritual (air), belly level, merchants commerce achievement

Wands and coins were giving me grief. I can see how that can be reversed but wands just scream physical to me. Coins were really the issue. Then I seen how the shape (circular) is repeated in the world and wheel. The highest achievement, to me, is spiritual ascension. Everything is cyclic. Etc...

I am wondering how others have come to the conclusions of what suit is associated with what. Does this change from deck to deck for you or remain stable?

Elemental associations feel so fundamental to me that even if books say they're other than I conceive of them, it'd feel counterproductive to me to try to fight my inclinations. I will exchange the 'hard' suits from deck to deck if not changing means forcing something where it doesn't belong, but if a shift is too far a stretch for me, I don't read with that deck.

I didn't learn on TdM originally, though I've been reading with it lately, and I don't have the Dodal, so these thoughts may not be useful. But it sounds like you feel as firmly about many of your associations as I do about mine, and if wands scream physicality to you, then my vote is to go with it. If you tried to read them in a way that didn't resonate, wouldn't you feel blocked?

I don't remember exactly how I came to my conclusions about the elements -- probably what seemed right based on the 4 suit symbols themselves (with cardinal virtue associations added after Paul Huson's book) -- but for what it's worth, my current associations are below, with Spiritual being a possible attribute of each suit at its best.
(Of course, I'm not advocating these for anyone else.)

Cups: emotions (water) temperance, heart level, changeable, social, convivial, cooperative, co-dependent, devotional -- serenity at best/stagnation or turbulence at worst
Swords: intellect (fire -- or air) justice, brow level, warriors nobility authority, difficulties, experience, learning, tempered (as in metal) -- wisdom at best/ruthlessness at worst
Wands: will and energy (air -- or fire) fortitude, groin level, servants, action, creativity, skill, sexuality, risks -- creation at best/recklessness at worst
Coins: physical (earth) prudence, belly level, merchants commerce achievement, practical, agricultural, conservative, safe, possessive -- grounded at best/stubbornness or spiritual disinterest at worst

I'm just working my way through the pips now so I haven't read with them yet. I don't think I could if I tried to force something else with it. I suspect your right, and I would feel blocked.

My IJJ swiss read the same as your first picks. So this is really new. I stopped reading for a few years so perhaps how I've changed has changed my views with the cards. I don't really know.

Which book was it that you read? I might like that.

I'm a beginner lately, because I read with the same two decks in the same way for years, and now that I'm trying out different kinds of decks and ways of reading, a lot of my ideas have been changing. I'm enjoying it.

Here's the Aeclectic page for Huson's book. I liked the way he researched the premise that card imagery was pulled from sources Medieval people would have been familiar with, like mystery and morality plays.

Oh excellent. Thank you for that link! It's fun being a beginner all over again! Sometimes confusing though.

Jean-Claude Flornoy had a preferred system of elemental correlations for the suits, but I can't find it now.

There are exactly 24 different ways to associate the elements with the suits. I just use the standard Golden Dawn correlations: Wands-Fire, Cups-Water, Swords-Air, Coins-Earth. Wiccans use Wands-Air, Swords-Fire, which I suppose relates to Swords as weapons, but nowadays swords are used more as ceremonial props than as practical warfare implements.

We are fortunate to be able to use the word "elements" in this forum. It wasn't always like that.

Hmm I'll check all my lwb's from his decks and anything else I printed off to see what I find from Flornoy.

I knew there was quite a few ways you could associate but not 24! Why did you choose the golden dawn method? And I well remember the caution of approaching certain subjects. It's nice to not get lambasted just for asking a question.

Hooked on TdM said:

......I knew there was quite a few ways you could associate but not 24! Why did you choose the golden dawn method?......

Click to expand...

It may be the most common correlation, especially with Rider-Waite and clones. It is the official correlation for all Thoth and Golden Dawn decks, and it seems to be favored by many who use Elemental Dignities.

Of course, it is generally avoided by TdM aficionados, who enjoy treading their individual paths, aloof from the common Rider-Waite herd. My personal feeling is that all Tarot derives from the historical decks such as TdM, and that the ideas which became associated with Tarot around the year 1900 are not necessarily invalid for earlier decks.

I found the Flornoy elemental attributions - http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=72455

LRichard said:

Of course, it is generally avoided by TdM aficionados, who enjoy treading their individual paths, aloof from the common Rider-Waite herd. My personal feeling is that all Tarot derives from the historical decks such as TdM, and that the ideas which became associated with Tarot around the year 1900 are not necessarily invalid for earlier decks.

Click to expand...

I share your feelings on that. It just doesn't match my feelings for my deck! Thank you for finding Flornoy's information. That's a real gem there. Off to read!!!