The Current State of the Lenormand Community

True DownUnderNZer

There is such a difference to me between tarot and Lenormand. I basically had to forget tarot when working with Lenormand. It's not just the images are different, it's a different type of reading. Sometimes I think because of it's straightforwardness with basically just an image, readers may want to make more of it and look at other things going on in the card instead of the main image. To me, it's like flipping a switch. Not seeing Lenormand with tarot "eyes". I think many learn tarot first, certainly not all readers, but a lot.
So much going on, different decks, more cards than you switch to Lenormand with half the cards and...a Dog, or Clover, or Fox.

This seems to have gone a little into the realm of accuracy, answering the question etc.

All I can do, is look at questions posted in various onsite locations where hindsight is not something that comes into play.

Look at the interpretations of how things will play out where I am astounded at how many variations there are. Probably due to the fact there many key words that could fit any given card, some readers will do the noun, verb, ajdective thing, some will read linear, some will use central card as key and modify that etc some will be more detailed than others, etc)

Then look at the actual outcome should there be a follow up post showing this, followed by an assessment of accuracy.
Then I realise that with Lenormand, it is more than possible to get it very, very wrong. Possibly more so than with tarot.

I think Izzydunne exampled that on another thread where the Fish card was discussed. And I am wondering if those who are more accurate overall, DO have the intuition thing going on better than the likes of myself, who don't.

Too often I have gone down a track of thought for fictional character readings, only to learn after reading the novel, I had gone the wrong route. Yes, the key words and subseqent sentences were valid for the cards chosen. But so were other key words and sentences. And the ones I didn't choose were the correct ones. Yet I followed my instinct and intuition at the time. I think what I am getting at (at least for myself) is that when you have a more structured system with concise attributes, if you get it wrong - you can get it very, very wrong. And that is what I have seen in some of the interpretations from others when hindsight is not something that can be incorporated. Not everyone was right. Yet I am sure, each and everyone who contributed felt they were on the right track. Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing. With it, I always find I home in on the correct key aspect of a card.

Just my ramblings - hope they make sense. May not be able to spend time elaborating on this for now - busy few days ahead, but just wanted to get these thoughts out of my head.

Davina

BTW~ Traditional Lenormand readers that only do the GT are so use to that structure and methodology that they cant grasp any other system outside of it. Thus the inflexibility and lack of acceptance.

I learnt the GT first and at least a good few years although it only took me 3 months to have it downpacked, but it was not fulfilling. It was one hell of a challenge learning other ways to read them. Trial and error. So, as I see it, the Traditional readers are really only able to work within a GT structure unless taught otherwise. And if it is within a GT structure they do not really answer lots of open ended questions and can only look at general areas like: Work, Relationships, Health, Money etc.

DownUnderNZer said:

BTW~ Traditional Lenormand readers that only do the GT are so use to that structure and methodology that they cant grasp any other system outside of it. Thus the inflexibility and lack of acceptance.

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Are there many traditional readers out there that only use the grand tableau for readings?

I have come across a lot of - what I would consider to be - 'traditional' readers,but who don't always use the GT.

For example, I don't think Sylvie Steinbach uses the GT much. Having read her book, that's the impression I get - there are no grand tableau layouts in that book. In my mind, she is a 'traditional' reader, having learnt the craft from her family.

My first Lenormand reading was with a woman who had been taught by her mother, who in turn had been taught by her mother, so it was passed down from the family. A traditional reader. But, no inflexibility there ... for my reading she did not use GT spread. In fact some of the spread layouts she used were some I've never come across since.

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As for the current state of the Lenormand Community, I think there always seems to be a degree of conflict when people have differing views about something. My own view is that people who have been doing this - Lenormand reading - for a long time, but esp. when the tradition of reading has been passed down from family, must have something to say/teach that is worth listening to. How much of this knowledge others take and apply to their own readings is up to them, but to simply brush aside this knowledge (that has come from years of experience and many practical readings) is surely only a missed opportunity to possibly learn more. I suspect this is probably what's causing the frustration that some long-time readers are feeling (as per the first post), and I think it has less to do - if rarely - about such people wishing to impose their methods onto others, i.e. 'it's my way, or the highway' approach; which I've personally never experienced.

How much of this knowledge others take and apply to their own readings is up to them, but to simply brush aside this knowledge (that has come from years of experience and many practical readings) is surely only a missed opportunity to possibly learn more.

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I agree 100%. Demeaning attitude and lack of respect for other beliefs is NEVER ok.

Sylvie is "traditional", but she knows the GT. She is generational and was taught it. The book she wrote is based on her own system which is the (NLO) "no lay out" one. She stemmed away from the GT, but she definitely knows it 100%.

I have interacted with her a number of times and even had some "interesting moments" with her and trust me when I say - she is very "one way" when it comes to her method.

Just found this in which it mentions she will discuss the "GT" in one of her seminars:

LIVE PRESENTATION July 18th, 2014.

http://www.sylviesteinbach.com/Classes_-_Special_Events.html

So, she is not new to it.....

Melia said:

Are there many traditional readers out there that only use the grand tableau for readings?

I have come across a lot of - what I would consider to be - 'traditional' readers,but who don't always use the GT.

For example, I don't think Sylvie Steinbach uses the GT much. Having read her book, that's the impression I get - there are no grand tableau layouts in that book. In my mind, she is a 'traditional' reader, having learnt the craft from her family.

My first Lenormand reading was with a woman who had been taught by her mother, who in turn had been taught by her mother, so it was passed down from the family. A traditional reader. But, no inflexibility there ... for my reading she did not use GT spread. In fact some of the spread layouts she used were some I've never come across since.

---

As for the current state of the Lenormand Community, I think there always seems to be a degree of conflict when people have differing views about something. My own view is that people who have been doing this - Lenormand reading - for a long time, but esp. when the tradition of reading has been passed down from family, must have something to say/teach that is worth listening to. How much of this knowledge others take and apply to their own readings is up to them, but to simply brush aside this knowledge (that has come from years of experience and many practical readings) is surely only a missed opportunity to possibly learn more. I suspect this is probably what's causing the frustration that some long-time readers are feeling (as per the first post), and I think it has less to do - if rarely - about such people wishing to impose their methods onto others, i.e. 'it's my way, or the highway' approach; which I've personally never experienced.

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The German ladies that taught me only used the GT.

I would probably give them heart attacks with how I use them, but especially the one that is generational. The other might be okay...not too sure.

Melia said:

Are there many traditional readers out there that only use the grand tableau for readings?

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greatdane said:

There is such a difference to me between tarot and Lenormand. I basically had to forget tarot when working with Lenormand. It's not just the images are different, it's a different type of reading. Sometimes I think because of it's straightforwardness with basically just an image, readers may want to make more of it and look at other things going on in the card instead of the main image. To me, it's like flipping a switch. Not seeing Lenormand with tarot "eyes". I think many learn tarot first, certainly not all readers, but a lot.

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Well said. My experience is exactly the same. I decided to learn Lenormand in order to stretch myself to develop skills and methods that I hadn't developed through Tarot or other modern oracle decks. Ironically, I now understand some of the 19th century approaches to Tarot much better - especially the Golden Dawn's original description and Mathers' modeling of the "Opening of the Key" approach - which are more based on early 19th century cartomancy.

I don't want or need Lenormand to operate the same as Tarot!

Melia said:

. . . people who have been doing this - Lenormand reading - for a long time, but esp. when the tradition of reading has been passed down from family, must have something to say/teach that is worth listening to. How much of this knowledge others take and apply to their own readings is up to them, but to simply brush aside this knowledge (that has come from years of experience and many practical readings) is surely only a missed opportunity to possibly learn more. I suspect this is probably what's causing the frustration that some long-time readers are feeling (as per the first post), and I think it has less to do - if rarely - about such people wishing to impose their methods onto others, i.e. 'it's my way, or the highway' approach; which I've personally never experienced.

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Thank you for your clarity. However, some traditionalists are a bit heavy-handed with imposing their methods - most teachers are. For instance, in a Math class you are required to learn a particular way of arriving at an answer; years later you may discover that other approaches were just as valid and might even be easier for you. We can benefit from the clarity and definitiveness of a teacher even if we later develop a different approach for ourselves. I go to a variety of teachers/authors precisely to get different approaches - from those who are expert at their method.

One of the problems is that there are 1) the Lenormand Cards and 2) the Lenormand Method. You can do anything you want with the cards: cut them up, make a collage, use them to talk with your holy guardian angel, etc. However, it can be argued that reading the Petit Lenormand is a system and method as much as it is the use of these particular cards, and there are certain guidelines and even rules that must be learned as they are what make the system for which it has become famous.

I can make up my own meaning for the word "archetype" but that doesn't mean that I'll understand or communicate well with the majority of the human race who understand it ala Plato or Jung. And if I want to view the world through Plato's eyes I need to use his understanding, not Jung's.

ana luisa said:

Demeaning attitude and lack of respect for other beliefs is NEVER ok.

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Sadly, a lot of so called spiritual people are the worst offenders.

DownUnderNZer said:

Sylvie is "traditional", but she knows the GT. She is generational and was taught it. The book she wrote is based on her own system which is the (NLO) "no lay out" one. She stemmed away from the GT, but she definitely knows it 100%.

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I know ... I have her book. She speaks about the GT in 3 pages total ... she calls it the 'panoramic' spread I think, but that's the extent of it and gives no sample readings using it in the book. It's very clear in what she writes, that she thinks the GT has limitations. This is why I said I didn't think she used it often. That may not be the case, but it's certainly the impression she gives the reader of her book. It wouldn't be correct to say that all traditionalists just use the GT.

Teheuti said:

One of the problems is that there are 1) the Lenormand Cards and 2) the Lenormand Method. You can do anything you want with the cards: cut them up, make a collage, use them to talk with your holy guardian angel, etc. However, it can be argued that reading the Petit Lenormand is a system and method as much as it is the use of these particular cards, and there are certain guidelines and even rules that must be learned as they are what make the system for which it has become famous.

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Look, if I wanted to contact my guardian angel, I would seek out a medium.
For a Lenormand card reading, I expect a reader who reads the Lenormand cards, and traditionally - i.e. not someone who reads the cards like tarot, has not learnt the basic guidelines or rules, or knows nothing about the GT method (even if they don't employ it in the actual reading). A reader who uses a rigid, abbreviated, set 2 card meanings method isn't reading Lenormand either.