The Fool

When the Fool card comes up in a reading is there ever a point where you might take the card literally, as in interpreting it to mean the person feels like a fool? Example, in doing a reading for someone on what happened to make their partners feelings for them change one of the cards that came up was the Fool. Could that be read as him feeling like a fool for getting involved with her, as opposed to wanting something new/different? I would be more inclined to see the 4 or 8 of Cups cards as him wanting something new/different instead of the Fool card...or am I just seeing this wrong?

Acting stupid sounds more apt here.

lilac-dawn said:

Acting stupid sounds more apt here.

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Acting stupid in what way...he is acting stupid because his feelings for her changed or his feelings changed because she was acting stupid?

mysticangel_001 said:

Acting stupid in what way...he is acting stupid because his feelings for her changed or his feelings changed because she was acting stupid?

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He obviously did someting stupid that she did not like, anything from childish behaviour to arrogance.

mysticangel_001 said:

Acting stupid in what way...he is acting stupid because his feelings for her changed or his feelings changed because she was acting stupid?

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It could be either. Even though in case of the former, more precisely, it would be the reverse: He is acting stupid (at least from her view), that is, moving from one relationship to another on a whim, without giving real devotion to any, that's why his feelings changed. He might call it "following his heart." It is quite possible that this was his attitude right from the beginning. Some men (and women) are wired that way, at least during a certain stage of their development.

I have seen the Fool acting foolishly but it's a card from the major arcana as we alreay know. The fool is connected to Uranus - the planet of genius. Uranus is all about independence and making things "differently". It's like people who is represented of this card is marching to a different drummer. They don't care about the norms in the society. The are too connected to their spirit. This can cause upset to other people, (when different wills clashes) but the Fool is actually innovative - showing us how to live when using your free will. And sometimes this can look stupid or plain crazy. But because Uranus is linked to the future - the fool is often a person who is a "future man" (or woman). I have also seen the fool symbolize a strange or bizarre lover (but intelligent)

There isn't universal agreement that Uranus is related to the Fool. I happen to prefer the model that places Uranus with Judgement as the predecessor to the Saturn-ruled World card, since Uranus was the mythological father of Saturn (frankly, I just like the logic of that but the rather explosive nature of astrological Uranus does seem like a reasonable stand-in for supernal Fire). Pluto is associated with the Fool in that model (there is no disagreement about Neptune and the Hanged Man), and I can see the point that, considering the location of the path of the Fool on the Tree of Life and the fact that the planet(oid) Pluto has a highly eccentric orbit that takes it entirely out of the solar system for long periods, the Fool might be seen as a "messenger from the Cosmos" at the opposite end of the pecking order from Mercury regarding communication. So maybe it's not acting foolishly so much as inscrutably, at least to our normal ways of viewing reality. Maybe the individual in this reading was just saying ". . . and now for something completely different."

lilac-dawn said:

He obviously did someting stupid that she did not like, anything from childish behaviour to arrogance.

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See, now that is more her behavior than his. He can act that way, but she is the one who bullies everyone (him, friends, co-workers, etc)

Michael Sternbach said:

It could be either. Even though in case of the former, more precisely, it would be the reverse: He is acting stupid (at least from her view), that is, moving from one relationship to another on a whim, without giving real devotion to any, that's why his feelings changed. He might call it "following his heart." It is quite possible that this was his attitude right from the beginning. Some men (and women) are wired that way, at least during a certain stage of their development.

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Eh, I don't know about that. They have been together for 13 years and it has just been the last couple of years that he has had a change of feelings. His two previous relationships lasted about 5 years each, so he doesn't really jump from one to another on a whim.

SpiritualLight said:

I have seen the Fool acting foolishly but it's a card from the major arcana as we alreay know. The fool is connected to Uranus - the planet of genius. Uranus is all about independence and making things "differently". It's like people who is represented of this card is marching to a different drummer. They don't care about the norms in the society. The are too connected to their spirit. This can cause upset to other people, (when different wills clashes) but the Fool is actually innovative - showing us how to live when using your free will. And sometimes this can look stupid or plain crazy. But because Uranus is linked to the future - the fool is often a person who is a "future man" (or woman). I have also seen the fool symbolize a strange or bizarre lover (but intelligent)

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Barleywine said:

There isn't universal agreement that Uranus is related to the Fool. I happen to prefer the model that places Uranus with Judgement as the predecessor to the Saturn-ruled World card, since Uranus was the mythological father of Saturn (frankly, I just like the logic of that but the rather explosive nature of astrological Uranus does seem like a reasonable stand-in for supernal Fire). Pluto is associated with the Fool in that model (there is no disagreement about Neptune and the Hanged Man), and I can see the point that, considering the location of the path of the Fool on the Tree of Life and the fact that the planet(oid) Pluto has a highly eccentric orbit that takes it entirely out of the solar system for long periods, the Fool might be seen as a "messenger from the Cosmos" at the opposite end of the pecking order from Mercury regarding communication. So maybe it's not acting foolishly so much as inscrutably, at least to our normal ways of viewing reality. Maybe the individual in this reading was just saying ". . . and now for something completely different."

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OK, I see what you are all saying but you are seeing this from her point of view, why SHE thinks his feelings have changed, but the reading was asking why his feelings changed, from his point of view, that is why I was questioning if the Fool could be taken literally?

I know that this isn't the area that we post our readings, but taken in context to the rest of the cards drawn (7 Cups and 5 Swords...no, it wasn't a PPF reading) I could see that card as meaning that he feels like a fool because the woman that he thought was the woman of his dreams turned out to be a bully who doesn't respect him or appreciate what he does for her (his feelings about the relationship, in his own words).

Moderator, if you need to move this to the YR section I understand.

mysticangel_001 said:

I would be more inclined to see the 4 or 8 of Cups cards as him wanting something new/different instead of the Fool card...or am I just seeing this wrong?

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This is where I was coming from regarding his stance in the matter:

The Fool "represents an original, subtle, sudden impulse or impact, coming from a completely strange quarter." (Crowley, Book of Thoth)

Maybe it was as simple as someone new - maybe a chance encounter - totally turning his head. Not so much what he wanted, but what irresistably lured him into changing his mind.

A Literal Fool

mysticangel_001 said:

When the Fool card comes up in a reading is there ever a point where you might take the card literally, as in interpreting it to mean the person feels like a fool? ...Could that be read as him feeling like a fool for getting involved with her

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Humanity has always needed that one person who does foolish things to make us laugh--which is why there have always been fools at royal courts, and clueless characters in plays. And yes, we in civilized times know it's cruel to laugh or mock people who aren't trying to make us laugh; who are just making honest mistakes. But we still play pranks and laugh at those who fall for them--and they laugh at falling for them too. We still watch comedies where people make dumb mistakes and, in scrambling to fix them, escalate their folly. We still love comedians who entertain us with monologues of their foolish moves. And, yes, sometimes that laughter is because the person looked at the thing very wrongly in their ignorance, in a way we never expected, in a way that might delight us as well as make us laugh (fish-out-of-water stories are all about such folly).

Ultimately, however, we're not laughing at them, but because these Fools help us to see, know, and laugh at ourselves. At the stupid things we've done. And in that laughter, we forgive ourselves for those times when we've been a Fool.

THAT is why the Fool is a major arcana. Yes, he can sometimes be an innovator that others see as foolish ("Men weren't meant to fly! What is that fool doing trying to create wings?") And there are those who are wise beyond their time that others mock because they're the fools and they don't understand. BUT, the Fool isn't just a major, an archetype for them. He is also a major, and archetype for our actual folly. Our actual dumb mistakes. The ones we make and post on YouTube for everyone to laugh at...and for us to laugh at as well, remembering, forgiving, learning from, and understanding that being silly, being clownish, being stupid, being unwise, is quintessentially human.

Answer to your question: YES. The Fool can stand for literally being a Fool. And I agree, given how you've described this girl, that this person got that card likely because she hasn't changed at all. What's changed is his perspective. The cards might be saying: "She hasn't changed, you Fool! She was always like this. You were too foolishly blind to see it."