Celtic Cross and Hopes and Fears Placement

Tre

I hope this is the right place to post?

I have a question. I have always believed that the card you get for the hopes and fears in the celtic cross tells you what you are hoping or fearing about.

Speaking to a tarot reader, for a great many years, said that the card you get in that placements tells you what is coming and how it will relate to your hopes and fears.

What is your intake on this?
 

Barleywine

I hope this is the right place to post?

I have a question. I have always believed that the card you get for the hopes and fears in the celtic cross tells you what you are hoping or fearing about.

Speaking to a tarot reader, for a great many years, said that the card you get in that placements tells you what is coming and how it will relate to your hopes and fears.

What is your intake on this?

We've had some stimulating debates on the subject here in the past. Personally, I use Eden Gray's Celtic Cross layout as a starting point for my own version. She considered the ninth position to show "hopes" and the seventh position to show "fears." I blended this idea with Waite's definition of the seventh card as "the Self" and changed it to all manner of negative reinforcement, chiefly "self-doubts." This works for me because I see Card #7 as a reaction to the emergence of the "near future" in the querent's life, especially if Card #6 promotes uncertainty and "second-guessing." The ninth position I see not only as idle hopes and wishes, but also as "aspirations," or what the querent wants and is willing to go after.

One other option we came up with is to draw two cards for the ninth position, one for "hopes" and one for "fears." I haven't used this but it seems to have merit.

Regarding the original question, I consider all of the cards in the "staff" potion of the CC to show "what is coming" in getting from the "near future" to the "outcome." As a "milestone" along the the way, each position shows the querent's encounter with the developing situation.
 

Hemera

I have usually used Joan Bunning's version where that position can be any of the following:
-Guidance
-Key Factor (Key Person if it is a Court card)
-Hopes and Fears
-Overlooked Factor
-Wild Card (Element of Surprise)

http://www.learntarot.com/ccpos9.htm

So, basically it can be almost anything which is admittedly a bit confusing especially if one is not an intuitive reader. :royal:
But as Barleywine says the staff is about what is coming, what lies ahead.
 

tarotlova

I've read it as what you have to get over to get to the outcome card :shhh:
 

Barleywine

I've read it as what you have to get over to get to the outcome card :shhh:

I like this idea, but it's how I use Card #7. Once querents get past their own personal demons and the involvement/interference of others, they are free to chase their dreams.
 

RiverRunsDeep

We've had some stimulating debates on the subject here in the past. Personally, I use Eden Gray's Celtic Cross layout as a starting point for my own version. She considered the ninth position to show "hopes" and the seventh position to show "fears." I blended this idea with Waite's definition of the seventh card as "the Self" and changed it to all manner of negative reinforcement, chiefly "self-doubts." This works for me because I see Card #7 as a reaction to the emergence of the "near future" in the querent's life, especially if Card #6 promotes uncertainty and "second-guessing." The ninth position I see not only as idle hopes and wishes, but also as "aspirations," or what the querent wants and is willing to go after.

One other option we came up with is to draw two cards for the ninth position, one for "hopes" and one for "fears." I haven't used this but it seems to have merit.

Regarding the original question, I consider all of the cards in the "staff" potion of the CC to show "what is coming" in getting from the "near future" to the "outcome." As a "milestone" along the the way, each position shows the querent's encounter with the developing situation.

I like this idea, but it's how I use Card #7. Once querents get past their own personal demons and the involvement/interference of others, they are free to chase their dreams.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Barleywine. Celtic Cross readings have always felt somewhat vague to me, and these ideas are giving me that "Ah-ha!" moment of clarity.
 

Tre

Thank you all for replying and sharing your thoughts.
It makes more sense to me now :)
 

magicjack

I always find it hard to tell someone that they hope for something but fear it at the same time. This is one of the positions I find confusing and decided I will read that position as anyway I want at that time. Sometimes I call it advice. Or something they need to know. I refuse to struggle with the meanings of the positions anymore. I'm always trying different meanings for those certain positions I'm sure most know which one's I'm talking about.
 

Tara

I look at the 7th card as the fears or what you have to overcome and the ninth as the hopes. If either cards conflicts with the position, for example, the 7th is a positive card, then I see it as the querent blocking that is some way and the same for ninth card, if it has a negative card.
It is the way Dusty White does his spread and makes the spread easier to do I think. Something he also reminds us is that we must know if advance of the casting, which position means what to you. So decide what 7 is prior to starting to shuffle, and for other positions too.

Tara
 

Barleywine

I look at the 7th card as the fears or what you have to overcome and the ninth as the hopes. If either cards conflicts with the position, for example, the 7th is a positive card, then I see it as the querent blocking that is some way and the same for ninth card, if it has a negative card.
It is the way Dusty White does his spread and makes the spread easier to do I think. Something he also reminds us is that we must know if advance of the casting, which position means what to you. So decide what 7 is prior to starting to shuffle, and for other positions too.

Tara

Is this in Dusty's basic book or the more advanced one? I'm always interested in any approach that might come close to Eden Gray's. Anthony Louis in Tarot Beyond the Basics is similar to my own way of doing the CC and gave me a couple of new ideas. I was always doubtful of Waite's reading of the seventh card as the Self because he also had a Significator which was intended to be the Querent; sounded kind of schizophrenic to me.

But I made peace between Waite and Gray by deciding that this card could show the "deepest part of the Self," what I call the "psychic basement," where all manner of self-defeating attitudes and behaviors originate (aka "fears" with a bit more to sink your teeth into when seen as a reaction to Card #6). I always keep my psychological impressions (anything "mind-related") to the "staff" side of the spread because the "cross" part I see as more about the situation itself and the timeline for its development.