Your take on reading for a third person : ethical or not ?

GotH said:

Ahhh this subject divides readers in such a major way!

Third party or not, I feel that ethics and intrusiveness has already been compromised the second we begin flipping cards, so to me there's no ethically safe point to stop at. I'm a firm believer in doing my best to provide *possibilities* to my sitters with questions they have. If their quest is for me to help them "dig" for gold, we are going as deep as we can until we hit something hard. There's no benefit to my sitter if I say to them that we are going to dig for the treasure they seek but we can only dig sideways.

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I pretty much wholeheartedly agree with GotH.

ETA: and also Prudence. I can think of better words to describe reading third-parties than "intrusive".

prudence said:

I realize after all the years of this topic being discussed, you are firmly entrenched in your position, but how would it be intrusive to ask about how your own child was feeling at school lately? Explain how, and since we are using a word like intrusive, which carries a negative connotation, what harm do you feel it would actually cause? I've already stated, any info I might come up with through a reading wouldn't be used in any official capacity, so let's not create scenarios in which I or any other parent barges into school, saying things like, I know my Billy was picked on this week due to a tarot reading!

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I would never have envisaged a scenario like that. I would never think you could actually pick up that level of detail - I don't think tarot is that kind of tool. But why do I say "intrusive" - because I know my daughter. I KNOW she would have been outraged and regarded it as a gross invasion of her privacy. That is a part of why I feel as I do, I think - I'd feel rather the same.

What could I do with any information I might gain without asking her anyway ? Better - for me - to ask what I can best do for her.

prudence said:

If I saw cards indicating upset, strife, defensiveness, failure, it might just let me in on how things are going. If I saw positive cards, it could also help me to be less stressed out and not as quick to assume the worst. Either way, it could lead me to figuring out how to talk with my child about the things he struggles with in a school setting. There's also something to be said about not being blindsided by terrible reports from school that my kid did this that or the other. The only way I could see this as intrusive would be if I believed Tarot worked like a CCTV camera or perhaps like hiring a private detective to dig deeply into computer history or just straight up following and spying on the third party in question. I'd just like an explanation, based on the reality of what tarot can actually do[/b], rather than on incongruent comparisons and hyperbole.

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I DON'T actually think tarot picks up that accurately. Which is another reason I don't do third party readings - you have no-one to work WITH, and WITH is a big part of it. I have never called it spying. Well, if I have, I must have been really cross... I have mentioned it as feeling - to me - as intrusive as having my diary read. And I have mentioned how ick - and yes, intrusive - it feels to me when someone prays for me without my consent.

headincloud said:

I would find it intrusive for someone to do a reading about me without permission, just as I would be if someone tried to intrude on my life in any other way. How would you feel?

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Thanks. I'm glad someone else feels the same way I do.

zhadee said:

My 2 cts: In a way, it's talking about absent persons behind their back. As enabling, helpful and entertaining as this can be. Asking about a third person's thoughts and feelings is far easier than reflecting about one's own thoughts and feelings. So reflecting about another person's thoughts and feelings may give some sort of orientation.

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This too. Ask about something that will offer advice on how to change yourself/your behaviour.

I don't know if the comparison stands well but for people who actually trust their reading skills, reading about their children to have an idea of how well their lives are going is pretty similar to sneeking into their private journal or text messages.
I know I know it's a bit exaggerated...but still.

I know how it's like to be a teenager and how communication is not always easy but I still find the 'ethical line' ambiguous.

Also as some already said, I wondered how the gained information could be used if you can't talk to said child about it?

That's my humble opinion about it!

There seems to be a sense of perspective missing from this debate. Reading about an absent, unknowing third party does nothing to harm that person that I can see as long as they remain "blissfully unaware." It's like making meaningless, derogatory remarks behind their back that they're never going to hear. It says more about you than it does about them. On the other hand, if your querent takes what you say and uses it to "sandbag" the presumably innocent third party ("Aha! Gotcha!") I would consider that a violation of client-reader trust. I see no reason to put that kind of weapon in someone's hands.

Child feeling at school? Intrusive or not? I feel that as a parent it should be fine just to put your mind at rest, but not if it is all the time. I know a woman that zoned into her kids as an "Empath" and had no problems working out how they "felt". She did it a lot when her oldest went away to college/uni in the first year. Her daughter was fine with it though.

My paternal grandfather had a briefcase full of objects from each member of my family and when he wanted to know something about "whoever" - out that object would come and he would "know" whatever it was he wanted to find out. Mostly it was for the purpose of looking at the "welfare" of that person though. E.g. Sick/In trouble.

Sometimes it is not intrusive - just someone that cares.



DND

prudence said:

I realize after all the years of this topic being discussed, you are firmly entrenched in your position, but how would it be intrusive to ask about how your own child was feeling at school lately? Explain how, and since we are using a word like intrusive, which carries a negative connotation, what harm do you feel it would actually cause? I've already stated, any info I might come up with through a reading wouldn't be used in any official capacity, so let's not create scenarios in which I or any other parent barges into school, saying things like, I know my Billy was picked on this week due to a tarot reading!

If I saw cards indicating upset, strife, defensiveness, failure, it might just let me in on how things are going. If I saw positive cards, it could also help me to be less stressed out and not as quick to assume the worst. Either way, it could lead me to figuring out how to talk with my child about the things he struggles with in a school setting. There's also something to be said about not being blindsided by terrible reports from school that my kid did this that or the other. The only way I could see this as intrusive would be if I believed Tarot worked like a CCTV camera or perhaps like hiring a private detective to dig deeply into computer history or just straight up following and spying on the third party in question. I'd just like an explanation, based on the reality of what tarot can actually do[/b], rather than on incongruent comparisons and hyperbole.

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I have never felt that third party questions were unethical. For me, consulting the tarot is similar to consulting a therapist. A therapist would surely ask me about my various relationships and how I believed the people in my life might be thinking/feeling, and how that would impact me. Since I am the one interpreting the cards, I see them more as my own speculation and interpretation of what people are thinking/feeling rather than a definitive, intrusive spy-cam answer. Then again, I mostly read for myself. In reading this type of question for others, I always mention the "disclaimer" that, as a third party reading, the answers are in the realm of speculation and possibility, and often reveal more about the querent than the third party in question.

I find it interesting that people here are discussing whether or not it is intrusive to ask the tarot how their child is doing at school. I find it amusing considering the things that parents have been know to do to check up on their kids. Parents will go through a kid's cell phone, computer, closet, and books. They look in the kid's pockets, in dresser drawers, under the bed, and under the rug. Not that all parents are so obsessed with this, but I've heard of it happening. There's parents who believe their children have no right to privacy at all. Just because. By comparison, doing a tarot reading seems pretty mild.

And you know what? Girlfriends and boyfriends go through each other's stuff, too. Not that I personally have done it, but I've heard of it happening. And I don't hear much talk about the ethics of any of these intrusions.

Bet people do say something only it would be girlfriend to boyfriend or boyfriend to girlfriend etc. No need for a Tarot reader to speak up on either's behalf or to look at anything there. It can be done face to face and need not involve anyone else.

As for parents prying I think if a child is under 12 or even 15 there is nothing wrong with making sure there are no cyber monsters in their child's life if on PC or via mobile phone - it could be the difference between life or death.

One of my sisters will not have any male teachers around her son and the school is very clear on that - after watching an Oprah special that was the decision she made. And it goes for the other kids born after him in our family. No male teachers. Nothing against males - just Paedophiles and how they access kids.

(More likely to be male than female although there is a slim chance of females doing it).

"Intrusions" can be in varying degrees and it should be up to the reader to discern what feels right or not right.

As for "third person" readings it should come down to what is being asked perhaps and why.


DND

Metafizzypop said:

I find it interesting that people here are discussing whether or not it is intrusive to ask the tarot how their child is doing at school. I find it amusing considering the things that parents have been know to do to check up on their kids. Parents will go through a kid's cell phone, computer, closet, and books. They look in the kid's pockets, in dresser drawers, under the bed, and under the rug. Not that all parents are so obsessed with this, but I've heard of it happening. There's parents who believe their children have no right to privacy at all. Just because. By comparison, doing a tarot reading seems pretty mild.

And you know what? Girlfriends and boyfriends go through each other's stuff, too. Not that I personally have done it, but I've heard of it happening. And I don't hear much talk about the ethics of any of these intrusions.

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Barleywine said:

There seems to be a sense of perspective missing from this debate. Reading about an absent, unknowing third party does nothing to harm that person that I can see as long as they remain "blissfully unaware." It's like making meaningless, derogatory remarks behind their back that they're never going to hear. It says more about you than it does about them. On the other hand, if your querent takes what you say and uses it to "sandbag" the presumably innocent third party ("Aha! Gotcha!") I would consider that a violation of client-reader trust. I see no reason to put that kind of weapon in someone's hands.

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So what is the POINT of reading for an absent unknowing person ? I prefer to use tarot as something useful. YES I can sort of see the "value" in predictive readings about "will Winona Ryder get the role she is up for", "will so and so get an Oscar" - to test your own predictive reading abilities. But other than that - what FOR ? I have limited time in my life, and checking up on whether the local schoolteacher really does have a mistress on the side - I have better things to do.

RiverRunsDeep said:

I have never felt that third party questions were unethical. For me, consulting the tarot is similar to consulting a therapist. A therapist would surely ask me about my various relationships and how I believed the people in my life might be thinking/feeling, and how that would impact me. Since I am the one interpreting the cards, I see them more as my own speculation and interpretation of what people are thinking/feeling rather than a definitive, intrusive spy-cam answer. Then again, I mostly read for myself. In reading this type of question for others, I always mention the "disclaimer" that, as a third party reading, the answers are in the realm of speculation and possibility, and often reveal more about the querent than the third party in question.

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My bold. A therapist will ask about YOUR PERCEPTIONS. If you FEEL he doesn't love you, not whether he does or not. Not about the other person - because they cannot pretend to be able to see how the other person actually feels. And in therapy it is YOUR perceptions that count. How the other person behaves towards you - or how you see that. Not whether they actually DID camp out in your attic for months wishing you ill - this comes from a real life situation I have recently been involved in, where a friend of mine would have told a therapist this as fact - which it was not. The therapist (if they were daft enough to believe it) would have been acting on a false premiss. You'd need the other guy's input to know what was and wasn't true here. As anyone trying to see into the mind and thoughts of an uninvolved person does really. Which is the other reason I have often given here that I don't do them. Without that other person being involved, I don't believe the information you'd get would be reliable - even if you could use it. And what you can USE from a reading is what YOU can do, not what he feels.

Metafizzypop said:

I find it interesting that people here are discussing whether or not it is intrusive to ask the tarot how their child is doing at school. I find it amusing considering the things that parents have been know to do to check up on their kids. Parents will go through a kid's cell phone, computer, closet, and books. They look in the kid's pockets, in dresser drawers, under the bed, and under the rug. Not that all parents are so obsessed with this, but I've heard of it happening. There's parents who believe their children have no right to privacy at all. Just because. By comparison, doing a tarot reading seems pretty mild.

And you know what? Girlfriends and boyfriends go through each other's stuff, too. Not that I personally have done it, but I've heard of it happening. And I don't hear much talk about the ethics of any of these intrusions.

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Yes. And if any of this came up in my life, I would be all over the intrusiveness of it too - more, I admit, than about a tarot reading - there I agree that one's ethics are one's own, and while I don't do these readings, I don't actually say no-one should; I just say why I personally feel it to be wrong. I am appalled that parents put cameras in their children's rooms to monitor them, even demand CCTV in schools so that they can watch their child at all times; that women read their husbands' diaries; husbands check their wives' phones. I think it is all appalling and if you want a diatribe against general nosiness, you got it. It is also a huge part of why I will not engage with Facebook - it actively encourages that kind of sleazy snooping.