The line between archetype and stereotype

mosaica

I'd like to learn basic astrology in order to increase my understanding and knowledge of the cards, but I have a resistance to learning it. I feel like there's a fine line between archetype and stereotype. I struggle with court cards for the same reason. I don't like to type people. I don't like to assume that I know what kind of person someone is simply because they might be represented by a particular court card, or a particular zodiac sign.

I hope I don't offend anyone by asking: How do you avoid stereotyping in astrology? I know very little about it, so I may very well be misunderstanding it. Does astrology lead to stereotyping, or does it help you avoid it?

Thanks.
Mosaica

balenciaga

A person's individual astrological chart prevents stereotyping as long as one gets past the initial sun-sign interp.
I do not know much about astrology either; I dabble in it very lightly (and ever so gingerly) because I do not understand all the degrees/math- related stuff.

franniee

balenciaga said:
A person's individual astrological chart prevents stereotyping as long as one gets past the initial sun-sign interp.
I do not know much about astrology either; I dabble in it very lightly (and ever so gingerly) because I do not understand all the degrees/math- related stuff.

Exactly!

Not all virgos are created equally! Not all leos are the same, etc etc etc It all depends on your chart and mostly on your personal planets. It isn't stereotyping at all. It is the moment we are born and the place that determines the alignment of the planets in the chart.

The rising sign usually signifies who the person is outwardly while the sun sign is the inner you but even that general statement isn't perfect because your personal planets play into this too.... the chart is 3 dimensional everything interacts with everything else...

ravenest

And even if we were all sterotypes, 1 of 12 or 1 of 16 (courts) our environment and daily situation and upbrining and...and...and... all modifies us and makes us and our reactions and responses.

mosaica

ravenest said:
And even if we were all sterotypes, 1 of 12 or 1 of 16 (courts) our environment and daily situation and upbrining and...and...and... all modifies us and makes us and our reactions and responses.

So astrology is so complex because it needs to mirror the complexity of life (or life mirrors the complexity of the universe!). So can you use astrology to bring complexity to the courts?

franniee

mosaica said:
So astrology is so complex because it needs to mirror the complexity of life (or life mirrors the complexity of the universe!). So can you use astrology to bring complexity to the courts?

Oh absolutely! I use it all of the time! Each court to me is a sign.

and it brings those attributes.

Starling

mosaica said:
I hope I don't offend anyone by asking: How do you avoid stereotyping in astrology? I know very little about it, so I may very well be misunderstanding it. Does astrology lead to stereotyping, or does it help you avoid it?

Actually it is pretty easy to avoid it in real Astrology. Just take the 3 main points and multiply the possibilities. 12 Sun signs x 12 Moon signs x 12 Ascendants = 1728 possibilities. Of course each of those Sun and Moon signs also has 12 possible house placements as well, so that ups the possibilities by quite a bit. And are the Sun and Moon and/or Ascendant in some kind of aspect to one another? Which kind of aspect? That makes even more changes.

You don't get a whole lot of stereotyping with those kinds of numbers.

As for the Court Cards, I always think that any individual can be any of those 16 cards TODAY, or at this moment in time, or for this question. For example I am a 66 year old woman and I got one of the Pages and one of the Knights in last night's reading. Obviously some aspect of me that had nothing to do with my age or my sex was being highlighted. If you manage to avoid the idea that YOU are ALWAYS the Queen of Swords or the Queen of Pentacles (both of which fit me a lot of the time) you don't have to worry about stereotyping.

mosaica

Starling said:
Actually it is pretty easy to avoid it in real Astrology. Just take the 3 main points and multiply the possibilities. 12 Sun signs x 12 Moon signs x 12 Ascendants = 1728 possibilities. Of course each of those Sun and Moon signs also has 12 possible house placements as well, so that ups the possibilities by quite a bit. And are the Sun and Moon and/or Ascendant in some kind of aspect to one another? Which kind of aspect? That makes even more changes.

You don't get a whole lot of stereotyping with those kinds of numbers.

As for the Court Cards, I always think that any individual can be any of those 16 cards TODAY, or at this moment in time, or for this question. For example I am a 66 year old woman and I got one of the Pages and one of the Knights in last night's reading. Obviously some aspect of me that had nothing to do with my age or my sex was being highlighted. If you manage to avoid the idea that YOU are ALWAYS the Queen of Swords or the Queen of Pentacles (both of which fit me a lot of the time) you don't have to worry about stereotyping.

Thanks for the numbers, Starling. As I say, my knowledge of astrology is very vague. It just seems like I hear all the time -- even from professional astrologers and tarot readers -- things like, "Oh, SHE'S a Capricorn ...," or "Oh, HE'S a King of Cups..." (with a knowing tone of voice) as if that explains *everything* they ever need to know about that person. I want to avoid ever doing that myself.

Starling

mosaica said:
Thanks for the numbers, Starling. As I say, my knowledge of astrology is very vague. It just seems like I hear all the time -- even from professional astrologers and tarot readers -- things like, "Oh, SHE'S a Capricorn ...," or "Oh, HE'S a King of Cups..." (with a knowing tone of voice) as if that explains *everything* they ever need to know about that person. I want to avoid ever doing that myself.

Astrology is a psychological language. It is other things too including a clock, but when someone says, "Oh, SHE'S a Capricorn..." that is what they are trying to do. They are trying to tie a whole group of meanings that belong to the concept of Capricorn to that person. If they really think that is the whole thing, that is their problem. It should be possible to use the language without making the mistake that the sign of a single planet, even the Sun, or a single card, even the King of Cups, says everything about anyone person. Because both of us know that it doesn't.

Let's not through out the baby with the bathwater. I'm sure you've known people who have been The Emperor, The Empress, the Fool, or even the Wheel of Fortune at some point in their lives. <grin> It goes for signs too.

mosaica

Starling said:
Let's not through out the baby with the bathwater. I'm sure you've known people who have been The Emperor, The Empress, the Fool, or even the Wheel of Fortune at some point in their lives. <grin> It goes for signs too.

OK, maybe *I'm* being too black and white on the issue (and reflecting that onto other people). Eventually this will all come together for me. It will click, and I'll "get it," if I just keep plugging away with the cards.

"Astrology for Dummies" maybe? (I just saw this book praised on another forum.)

The line between archetype and stereotype

mosaica

balenciaga

franniee

ravenest

mosaica

franniee

Starling

mosaica

Starling

mosaica