Confusion about different Kababala

krad_hcf

I saw differnt web or books have different kababala .
Is Kababala = Qababala = Cababala?
I am very confuse with different version of the content.
Can anybody help me ?
 

Ravenswing

if it starts with a...

From my experience, (for the most part), if it starts with a "K", it's the hebrew mystical system, if it starts with a "Q" it's the western majickal system and if it starts with a "C" it's the "Christian" slanted system (I don't come across the "C" too often...)


fly well
ravenswing
 

Greg Stanton

That is interesting -- I'd never heard that the differences in spelling denoted different approaches to C-K-Q-abalah.

I will say that the Kabbalah used by the Western Magical Tradition IS Christian Kabbalah. Agrippa, Mathers, Levi, Crowley and the rest all reference the texts that Pico della Mirandola (1463-1494) had translated for him by Raymondo Moncada. These and other, later texts, have a distinct Christian slant and interpretation -- is not authentic Jewish Kabbalah. The Kabbalah as it was understood in renaissance Europe sprang from this corrupt, Christianized material, and the occultists (not knowing any better) followed suit.

I'm still not convinced that Kabbalah applies to the Tarot. Every author advocates different correspondences. Levi's are completely different from Mathers/Golden Dawn. Crowley largely copied his material from GD. Papus and Case are different from all of these, not to mention a slew of other writers who don't agree either.

If you really want to study Kabbalah, understand that you have to steep your mind in archaic Jewish religious texts, continually and over a period of many years. One wonders how great the reward...
 

bradford

Ravenswing said:
From my experience, (for the most part), if it starts with a "K", it's the hebrew mystical system, if it starts with a "Q" it's the western majickal system and if it starts with a "C" it's the "Christian" slanted system (I don't come across the "C" too often...)

This is the growing consensus, with Christian Cabala being the rarest and of course the least articulate.
The Hebrew word is Qoph Beth Lamed He or QBLH as we transcribe it, so ironically, the Western Mystery Tradition spelling is truer to the Hebrew than the Jewish one.
 

venicebard

Greg Stanton said:
That is interesting -- I'd never heard that the differences in spelling denoted different approaches to C-K-Q-abalah.

I will say that the Kabbalah used by the Western Magical Tradition IS Christian Kabbalah. Agrippa, Mathers, Levi, Crowley and the rest all reference the texts that Pico della Mirandola (1463-1494) had translated for him by Raymondo Moncada. These and other, later texts, have a distinct Christian slant and interpretation -- is not authentic Jewish Kabbalah. The Kabbalah as it was understood in renaissance Europe sprang from this corrupt, Christianized material, and the occultists (not knowing any better) followed suit.
I would like to agree with this, as it is Hebrew Kabbalah that primarily moves me. But I have found two traditions preserved by the so-called Hermetic Kabbalah of today -- which as you say descends in part from Christian Kabbalah -- that I consider valid.

First is the application of planets to Sefirot, which is close to what I take as the correct such. Where they put the sun I put the year and raise the sun up to 2 (for which I can give sound argument), so that 1-10 yields the cycles from eternity (infinite cycle, the round itself) to 'today': 1-stars, 2-sun (great year, i.e. relation between equator and ecliptic), 3-Saturn, 4-Jupiter, 5-Mars, 6-year (ecliptic), 7-Venus, 8-Mercury, 9-moon, 10-earth (diurnal cycle, equator).

Second is the arrangement of letters on the paths of the 'Tree of Return': evidence points to this letter-arrangement (which even Crowley used) being the correct one, although of course the modern application of trumps to letters is grossly misdirected. Trumps were, I think, based not on Greek-Hebrew numbering but on the bardic numbering of the letters, as per the order: H(cheyt)=0, then A(=1) E I(zayin) O B M P(peh) F(but Heb. samekh) K G(=10) T D N L R(=15) S U(vav) Q Ii(yod) Ss(tzaddi) Aa(but Heb. teyt). The reason I take the path-assignments as correct is because it shows awareness of bardic numeration -- for example, E and I feed into 6 from 2 and 3, respectively, their bardic numbers -- and because the letters feeding into 6-Tiferet are, in order, the letters my deeper analysis of the order of the twelve 'simples' about the wheel had already placed on the inner or return side of the round (scorpio through aries): heh-zayin-yod-lamedh-nun-samekh, followed by the 'heat engine' of the round, ayin at leo, which represents the volatile vapors of mercury rising up into the upper half of the outer vessel to rule spring -- aries through gemini -- as O-furze, vowel of spring . . . but that's another story.
I'm still not convinced that Kabbalah applies to the Tarot. Every author advocates different correspondences. Levi's are completely different from Mathers/Golden Dawn. Crowley largely copied his material from GD. Papus and Case are different from all of these, not to mention a slew of other writers who don't agree either.
Yes, these charlatans (yes, I will call them such) have really muddied the waters. Perhaps it is good, in the long run, as the credulous will be less likely to accept the (what I consider) correct, bardic correlations (Keltic bardic tradition having descended from the same ultimate source as the Hebrew), leaving knowledge of these to those who are willing to think things out and not simply take by rote. People such as yourself.