Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Live Tarot Readings Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive

"Lenormand technically an oracle?"

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Beyond Tarot > Lenormand


 
firecatpickles's Avatar
firecatpickles  firecatpickles is offline
in a barrel in the yard
 
Join Date: 16 Jan 2006
Location: mars
Posts: 18,189
firecatpickles 
in a barrel in the yard

firecatpickles's Avatar
"Lenormand technically an oracle?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura Borealis View Post
If I get another oracle as well (isn't Lenormand technically an oracle? [...]
Is Lenormand an oracle?

My opinion: It technically is, but its history and the fact that it has a distinct system apart from other oracles (such as tarot) that rely on that history makes it a deck in and of itself.

What are your thoughts?
Top   #1
GotH's Avatar
GotH  GotH is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2012
Location: incognitio
Posts: 27,396
GotH 
Citizen

GotH's Avatar

Maybe I'm not understanding something here as there seems to be a partitioned distinction on this site about tarot and oracles. I thought an oracle was any tool or portal by which information was given by "the gods." So wouldn't tarot be considered an oracle as well?

Will hang back and keep watch to see what others say..
Top   #2
firecatpickles's Avatar
firecatpickles  firecatpickles is offline
in a barrel in the yard
 
Join Date: 16 Jan 2006
Location: mars
Posts: 18,189
firecatpickles 
in a barrel in the yard

firecatpickles's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by GotH View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding something here as there seems to be a partitioned distinction on this site about tarot and oracles. I thought an oracle was any tool or portal by which information was given by "the gods." So wouldn't tarot be considered an oracle as well?

Will hang back and keep watch to see what others say..
That's my question, too. Technically, they are all oracles, only particularly card-based.

I remember way back when, I PMed Solandia about using the Minchiate in the Tarot Forums. Her response was something along the lines that it is closely related to tarot, so make posts about the Minchiate in the Tarot Forum. (This was before the Historical Forum.)

What guides our distinction between Tarot, Lenormand, Oracles, etc. Is it their histories? Popularity? Traditional?

Does any distinction at all need to be made apart from organization and convenience?
Top   #3
Barleywine's Avatar
Barleywine  Barleywine is offline
Elder Jabberwock
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2011
Location: Where the wild things are
Posts: 9,055
Barleywine 
Elder Jabberwock

Barleywine's Avatar

As I see it, both tarot and Lenormand have a long-standing "system" in terms of structure and interpretation, while oracles are wide-open to the creator's vision and ingenuity. Playing around with the foundation of either of the others invites being branded as an "oracle" (the "merely" is kind of implied). I find nominal "oracle" decks to be much more open-ended, which is both a blessing and a curse as far as reading with them. But they do stretch the reader's imagination and skill.
Top   #4
Laura Borealis's Avatar
Laura Borealis  Laura Borealis is offline
pirate borealis
 
Join Date: 23 Feb 2004
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 17,790
Laura Borealis 
pirate borealis

Laura Borealis's Avatar

OK, when I made that comment (which was really just an aside) it was in response to the original question in another thread. Basically it was, "Choose four decks, a TdM, a RWS, a Thoth, and a Lenormand. Oh and also you can choose an oracle." (Paraphrased )

But I suppose I do have a mental division of decks where there is Tarot, and there is Everything Else, and Lenormand falls into the Everything Else category. Everything Else is labeled Oracles for convenience, in this mental schema of mine (which I suspect many other share).

Very good point by GotH that they are ALL oracles by definition. I will have to adjust my internal labeling system.
Top   #5
rachelcat's Avatar
rachelcat  rachelcat is offline
XII. The Hanging Cat
 
Join Date: 30 Oct 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 3,403
rachelcat 
XII. The Hanging Cat

rachelcat's Avatar

A thread about categories? Must be the place for me!

My first thought is that the division into "tarot" and "oracles" meaning every other kind of divination cards is a conventional one allows us see quickly whether a deck of cards has a tarot structure or something else. "That deck with 52 cards isn't really tarot, it's (just?) an oracle deck!" It's possible that this conventional meaning was perpetuated mostly by this site . . .

Then lenormand became more popular, bringing its own division here on Aeclectic.

I agree that technically, in the English definition sense, anything used for divination, including people, can be called oracles. But we can narrow it down a good bit by saying "oracle cards." Again, in a technical sense, tarot would be oracle cards, as would playing cards, if used for divination.

But if, with the rise of lenormand, the term oracle cards is beginning to/will be used only for decks of cards with unique, creator-invented systems (or no system at all, just a bunch of keywords, with or without a unifying or limiting theme (animals, goddesses, etc.)), I would suggest that we need another category, one for decks of cards based on non-card divination systems: I Ching, astrology, runes, numerology, palmistry, mah jong divination, etc.

But in what category would playing card divination go?

And what about divination decks based on esoteric systems that aren't usually used for divination, like Hebrew letters, 72 names of God, chakras, etc.?

Just throwing it all out there. What do you think? In reality, we, the members of this site, are probably the most influential innovators and arbiters of divination terminology, so we might as well take some time to think about it!
Top   #6
reall's Avatar
reall  reall is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 1,340
reall 
Citizen

reall's Avatar

yes, technically Lenormand is oracle with it's own lenormand system?XD same goes for Tarot(that is often separated as special category) or any other oracle that have it's distinctive name an rules, ie; Kipper Sibila minichiate etc,

but Oracle deck in modern sense is what we have today; 44 card decks with beautiful images and inspiring notes that can't be placed in any known traditional system?x,x or something like that lolz )
Top   #7
gregory's Avatar
gregory  gregory is offline
Cat on a cold stone roof
 
Join Date: 01 Jan 2004
Location: The world of the things that could have been.
Posts: 72,249
gregory 
Cat on a cold stone roof

gregory's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by GotH View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding something here as there seems to be a partitioned distinction on this site about tarot and oracles. I thought an oracle was any tool or portal by which information was given by "the gods." So wouldn't tarot be considered an oracle as well?
Yes. My position would be as in:

A cat is an animal.
All cats are animals.
Not all animals are cats.

Substitute:
Tarot is an oracle.
All oracles are portals.
Not all portals are tarot.

- or something like that.
Top   #8
Le Fanu's Avatar
Le Fanu  Le Fanu is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere Spooky
Posts: 17,258
Le Fanu 
Citizen

Le Fanu's Avatar

I know what an Oracle is from a Delphic point of view but I'm sorry to say that - for me - the word Oracle has become so soiled that I simply cannot use it for something that I love.

The word Oracle has been reappropriated for the feel-good "no, he'll-love-you-forever-no-he-won't-leave-you"" school of fortune telling. Lenormand is so much cleverer than that. The word Oracle has distasteful angelic or goddess connotations. Oracles are decks of cards that tell me everything is just going to be fine and so it's not a word I'm comfortable using anymore.

It's entirely self-inflicted - the oracle industry (and my god it feels like one) has brought it upon itself but I can't take the word "Oracle" seriously anymore.

I know I am alone in the world on this one but I don't care but -no - Lenormand isn't Oracle for me (technically or otherwise). Nor is Kipper or Those Hungarian / Biedemeier / charming East European cartomantic decks. Different echelon. Sorry...
Top   #9
Alta's Avatar
Alta  Alta is offline
Golden Silvery Dionna
 
Join Date: 06 Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 27,056
Alta 
Golden Silvery Dionna

Alta's Avatar

I would also divide these as to whether or not there are developed systems, often moving across similar methods. I tend to see 'oracles' as stand alone decks, generally the creation of one or two people.

However tarot, I Ching, Lenormand, runes etc have systems developed over time by many people and the systems still hold over variations in their representation.

But they are all oracular, systems or stand alone. imo anyway.

ETA LE Fanu, we were posting at the same time, good comments.
Top   #10


 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Forum Archive
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

The Aeclectic Tarot Forum closed permanently on July 14th, 2017. The public threads remain online as a read-only archive and resource. More information on our decision can be found here. Thank you for being a part of our active community over the past seventeen years.

Copyright © 1996 - 2017 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.