12th house thoughts

My views on the 12th house

The 12th house is a mutable house. In zodiac order, it leads to the first house. Yet, the Sun rises each morning into the 12th. These are some basics to start with.

In my new book, Personal Moon-to-Sun Returns 2, I note that the 12th house meanings vary depending upon the nature of what you are looking for. KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE VIEWS APPLY TO THE NATURE OF A MOON-TO-SUN RETURN -- KEEPING BALANCE IN A LIFE OF CHANGE.
** Personal: Anxiety, bluffing another, cheating confidential matters, feeling alone, fearful, afflicted situation, living in poverty of some sort, keeping secrets.
** Events: Burglary, charity event, escape from a situation, end of a love affair, unemployment, being taken advantage of, concerning overseas property, punishment.
** Family: Partner's lealth as an issue.
** Business, work: Hospitals, prisons, laboratory, petroleum/energy industry, detective, public welfare.
** Health, body: Anesthetics, drugs, feet, toes, bottled-up emotions.
** Extreme: Cheating, delusions.

While some may disagree with this wording, you have to keep in mind that the use of 'derivitive houses' is a play here. Regarding the 12th house, the 3rd house is the 4th house of the 12th. Count forward the houses; the 12th is the 1st of the 12th, the 1st is the 2nd from the 12th, the 2nd is the 3rd from the 12th, the 3rd is the 4th from the 12th. The 3rd house of communication and contact with everyday people in your life therefore has an influence in the 12th --- hence secrets, knowledge for one's on use, etc.

Again, in addition to the influence of the other houses on the 12th, one has to slant things according to the type of chart one is using, the questions one is seeking to answer. In a Lunar Return, for example, the emphasis is all on how one reacts and feels about life. The 12th house might be more about keeping one's emotions and fears to oneself and not letting them be visibily expressed. This, of course, is often a bad thing which leads to other personality issues. In a Solar Return, the 12th house is nuanced in terms one's attitude, actions and intention to follow one's life style. The 12th might therefore relate to preparation, planning for the future, making changes. This latter statement is appropriate when thinking of Saturn's cycle through the natal chart -- Saturn in the 12th house can play many roles including personal considerations and preparation for the future.

No House is simple. Every house is, or can be, a complex area of personal expression. As we become more astrologically-tuned we become more flexible in how we use our charts.

dadsnook2000 said:

The 12th house is a mutable house. In zodiac order, it leads to the first house. Yet, the Sun rises each morning into the 12th.

Click to expand...

If you are using a quadrant system, and most Astrologers do these days, then that is true. But the first system used for topical houses was the Whole Sign House system. The ascending degree can lie anywhere within a sign. This means that in the whole sign system, the Sun rises into the first house - which symbolises life and the native. I think this symbolism works better than that of the quadrant house. Having said that quadrant houses have always had a vital role to play in Astrology - literally so in the early days as they were used in the length of life calculation; the key first calculation of the Astrologer. This eventually developed into the system of primary directions, still used today.

Dadsnook2000 said:

In my new book, Personal Moon-to-Sun Returns 2, I note that the 12th house meanings vary depending upon the nature of what you are looking for. KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE VIEWS APPLY TO THE NATURE OF A MOON-TO-SUN RETURN -- KEEPING BALANCE IN A LIFE OF CHANGE.
** Personal: Anxiety, bluffing another, cheating confidential matters, feeling alone, fearful, afflicted situation, living in poverty of some sort, keeping secrets.
** Events: Burglary, charity event, escape from a situation, end of a love affair, unemployment, being taken advantage of, concerning overseas property, punishment.
** Family: Partner's lealth as an issue.
** Business, work: Hospitals, prisons, laboratory, petroleum/energy industry, detective, public welfare.
** Health, body: Anesthetics, drugs, feet, toes, bottled-up emotions.
** Extreme: Cheating, delusions.

Click to expand...

A good summary which I think should be noted by beginners for future reference. I'd make explicit something which is implicit in Dave's strictures. Don't always look at the twelfth through natal eyes. Sometimes you are dealing with events that aren't personal. The twelfth still has the characteristic of being unfortunate, and associates with loss or misery.

Originally the twelfth was seen as unfortunate because of three main characteristics. Firstly it's a Decline or cadent house. It's falling away from the angle and it's energy is depleted or spent.

Secondly it doesn't aspect the Ascendant, being adjacent to it. It therefore is not anchored to the main thing the chart is cast to examine, be it a person or be it a thing. In natal Astrology the twelfth is unconnected with the native, it's therefore an area of life that they have little or no control over. It's not conducive to helping us achieve what we want to achieve.

It differs from the cadent ninth or cadent third in this respect. Both of those are anchored to the Ascendant by a trine or a sextile respectively. All cadent houses were associated with travel, which was seen as dangerous, and risky. The ninth and the third offer some security, we have some control but the sixth and the twelfth don't. Out there lie enemies, dangers, loss, misery, all of which came to be associated with the twelfth.

Thirdly the planet which joys there is Saturn. A diurnal planet but one of the two unfortunate traditional planets. Again there's associations with loss, limit, misfortune, separation (from 'home' and therefore at the mercy of others). The links with prisons, hospitals, and places associates with loss of independence and self. I was in a meeting a few weeks back at a hospital where one patient said that the loss of her 'self' was the main problem she faced. She no longer controlled her own medication, she had to ring for a nurse if she wanted to use the toilet. Her ability to run her own l life had gone.

Finally the twelfth lies in the diurnal or solar hemisphere. It's the realm of Spirit rather than Fortune. We may bring disaster on ourselves through our own actions - one of the reasons why the twelfth is sometimes associated with being your own worst enemy. Incidentally the distinction between open enemies and hidden enemies is a medieval one. Originally the twelfth was simply 'enemies'. I think the association with the 'hidden' is also a later development, probably from the link to travel abroad. We are venturing into the unknown without a guide or a link to home. Who knows what lies out there which might threaten us. The unknown is of course hidden from our knowledge and understanding.

As Dave says, no house is simple. One of the challenges is to get a feel of the house as a whole and to apply that 'feel' to a particular chart to get a meaningful answer. There are also always exceptions in the sense that a person with Mars and Mercury in the Twelfth might actually turn out to be a brain surgeon in a hospital.

Minderwiz said:

If you are using a quadrant system, and most Astrologers do these days, then that is true. But the first system used for topical houses was the Whole Sign House system. The ascending degree can lie anywhere within a sign. This means that in the whole sign system, the Sun rises into the first house - which symbolises life and the native. I think this symbolism works better than that of the quadrant house. Having said that quadrant houses have always had a vital role to play in Astrology - literally so in the early days as they were used in the length of life calculation; the key first calculation of the Astrologer. This eventually developed into the system of primary directions, still used today.



A good summary which I think should be noted by beginners for future reference. I'd make explicit something which is implicit in Dave's strictures. Don't always look at the twelfth through natal eyes. Sometimes you are dealing with events that aren't personal. The twelfth still has the characteristic of being unfortunate, and associates with loss or misery.

Originally the twelfth was seen as unfortunate because of three main characteristics. Firstly it's a Decline or cadent house. It's falling away from the angle and it's energy is depleted or spent.

Secondly it doesn't aspect the Ascendant, being adjacent to it. It therefore is not anchored to the main thing the chart is cast to examine, be it a person or be it a thing. In natal Astrology the twelfth is unconnected with the native, it's therefore an area of life that they have little or no control over. It's not conducive to helping us achieve what we want to achieve.

It differs from the cadent ninth or cadent third in this respect. Both of those are anchored to the Ascendant by a trine or a sextile respectively. All cadent houses were associated with travel, which was seen as dangerous, and risky. The ninth and the third offer some security, we have some control but the sixth and the twelfth don't. Out there lie enemies, dangers, loss, misery, all of which came to be associated with the twelfth.

Thirdly the planet which joys there is Saturn. A diurnal planet but one of the two unfortunate traditional planets. Again there's associations with loss, limit, misfortune, separation (from 'home' and therefore at the mercy of others). The links with prisons, hospitals, and places associates with loss of independence and self. I was in a meeting a few weeks back at a hospital where one patient said that the loss of her 'self' was the main problem she faced. She no longer controlled her own medication, she had to ring for a nurse if she wanted to use the toilet. Her ability to run her own l life had gone.

Finally the twelfth lies in the diurnal or solar hemisphere. It's the realm of Spirit rather than Fortune. We may bring disaster on ourselves through our own actions - one of the reasons why the twelfth is sometimes associated with being your own worst enemy. Incidentally the distinction between open enemies and hidden enemies is a medieval one. Originally the twelfth was simply 'enemies'. I think the association with the 'hidden' is also a later development, probably from the link to travel abroad. We are venturing into the unknown without a guide or a link to home. Who knows what lies out there which might threaten us. The unknown is of course hidden from our knowledge and understanding.

As Dave says, no house is simple. One of the challenges is to get a feel of the house as a whole and to apply that 'feel' to a particular chart to get a meaningful answer. There are also always exceptions in the sense that a person with Mars and Mercury in the Twelfth might actually turn out to be a brain surgeon in a hospital.

Click to expand...

12th is places of isolation such as monasteries
12th house emphasis may indicate "a loner"

GoldenPhi said:

12th is places of isolation such as monasteries
12th house emphasis may indicate "a loner"

Click to expand...

Yes, both involve separating oneself from society. Saturn is the planet of separation and constructing walls, either physical or social and Saturn joys in the twelfth.

Minderwiz said:

Yes, both involve separating oneself from society. Saturn is the planet of separation and constructing walls, either physical or social and Saturn joys in the twelfth.

Click to expand...

Thanks Minderwiz!! A planet in 12th house is somehow isolated then and not able to act due to being cadent as well. Would it be a good thing then if a planet in detriment were in 12th house? Because the planet would not be able to carry out its negative significations?

And how would a planet in exaltation but cadent in 12th house act?
Would it be more able to carry out its significations because of being in better condition regarding essential dignity?

GoldenPhi said:

Thanks Minderwiz!! A planet in 12th house is somehow isolated then and not able to act due to being cadent as well. Would it be a good thing then if a planet in detriment were in 12th house? Because the planet would not be able to carry out its negative significations?

And how would a planet in exaltation but cadent in 12th house act?
Would it be more able to carry out its significations because of being in better condition regarding essential dignity?

Click to expand...

Be a little careful at taking one chart feature on it's own without relating it to the rest of the chart. Let' look at a couple of examples. Mars in the twelfth in Taurus. Mars is in detriment and in a bad place. Detriment is a condition of feeling not at home (the opposite of rulership, where the planet is at home, or in its own domicile.) The planet doesn't fit with its environment but it' stuck there. It's the equivalent of you being in a hotel for the night. You hate the furnishings, room service can't offer you what you want, the restaurant menu has all the dishes you don't like and is playing background music that you find really aggrevating. To make matters worse and bed mattress is either too hard or too soft for comfort and the bedroom mirror is in exactly the wrong place for dressing. You hate the place but you're stuck with it. You intend to conduct some business over the internet, so at least you can get some work done. Then you find that the internet's down and you can't do what you intended to to. Just think how annoyed you'd be if you were Mars inclined. You'd probably through a tantrum.

Does that matter? It might if the hotel manager had the room four doors down and you could get your hands on him/her, even better if the Person who sent you on the business trip happens to be nearby. o So imagine Mars in that position squaring Venus or Mercury in Leo. Venus is the hotel manager, you might be lucky and she might try and do something to help (as you have reception). Mercury on the other hand is the person who sent you on the trip (Ascendant ruler). Your angry, you can't get your job done but you can certainly give them some aggravation till things improve. Your trip is ruined but you can certainly make his/her trip a bit nasty.

So Mars in the twelfth, squaring the Ascendant ruler in the third isn't going to go unnoticed in a chart if it squares the Ascendant ruler through a dominant square. The thing that Mars was supposed to do for the native, give strength and assertiveness for example, may not work out, instead the negative aspect gives them third house issues connected with loss or enemies. So they might create enemies by the way they communicate, or annoy their travel or airline company to the extent that their travel is made difficult. You can think of even more possibilities if you put your mind to it.

Now that's only one possible example of how a planet in the twelfth might cause trouble but again I hope that you get the picture.

If on the other hand Mars was in the twelfth in Capricorn in a night chart, it would be in its exaltation. It's an honoured guest and the hotel is just fine. No expense spared to give him a good time. But the internet's still down and there is difficulty getting the job done. However Venus is in Pisces and is sextile Mars. Venus is the benefic of sect and Mars is just annoyed at not being able to get the job done but loves his surroundings. Venus is ruler of the ninth which is higher learning and technology and in the second which is funds. Now there's a possibility that something can be salvaged from the situation, especially if Saturn were in the tenth (Scorpio). Saturn is the Ascendant ruler and in a night chart is malefic but there's a mutual reception with Mars through rulership and Mars has a mutual reception with Venus through exaltation and in both cases there is an aspect. It's not strong in either case, being only a sextile but the receptions suggest that things will work out. Perhaps not perfectly, remember Saturn is the malefic of sect, but at least the situation will get sorted.

In this case we need an aspect to the benefic of sect (preferably a trine) and an aspect to the ascendant ruler which is either trine or sextile. The Receptions secure the outcome, even if it's not perfect. Without those aspects, Mars would be quite happy using the minibar, which is stocked with his favourite drinks, and would have a good time doing very little that was constructive.

Minderwiz said:

Be a little careful at taking one chart feature on it's own without relating it to the rest of the chart. Let' look at a couple of examples. Mars in the twelfth in Taurus. Mars is in detriment and in a bad place. Detriment is a condition of feeling not at home (the opposite of rulership, where the planet is at home, or in its own domicile.) The planet doesn't fit with its environment but it' stuck there. It's the equivalent of you being in a hotel for the night. You hate the furnishings, room service can't offer you what you want, the restaurant menu has all the dishes you don't like and is playing background music that you find really aggrevating. To make matters worse and bed mattress is either too hard or too soft for comfort and the bedroom mirror is in exactly the wrong place for dressing. You hate the place but you're stuck with it. You intend to conduct some business over the internet, so at least you can get some work done. Then you find that the internet's down and you can't do what you intended to to. Just think how annoyed you'd be if you were Mars inclined. You'd probably through a tantrum.

Does that matter? It might if the hotel manager had the room four doors down and you could get your hands on him/her, even better if the Person who sent you on the business trip happens to be nearby. o So imagine Mars in that position squaring Venus or Mercury in Leo. Venus is the hotel manager, you might be lucky and she might try and do something to help (as you have reception). Mercury on the other hand is the person who sent you on the trip (Ascendant ruler). Your angry, you can't get your job done but you can certainly give them some aggravation till things improve. Your trip is ruined but you can certainly make his/her trip a bit nasty.

So Mars in the twelfth, squaring the Ascendant ruler in the third isn't going to go unnoticed in a chart if it squares the Ascendant ruler through a dominant square. The thing that Mars was supposed to do for the native, give strength and assertiveness for example, may not work out, instead the negative aspect gives them third house issues connected with loss or enemies. So they might create enemies by the way they communicate, or annoy their travel or airline company to the extent that their travel is made difficult. You can think of even more possibilities if you put your mind to it.

Now that's only one possible example of how a planet in the twelfth might cause trouble but again I hope that you get the picture.

Click to expand...

I've spent some time reading on your previous posts and am catching up
I understand that the chart as a whole must be accounted for
In that context then, Mars in Leo in 12th would not do well with a Libra Sun in 2nd
Enemies, hidden enemies in financial matters?

Minderwiz said:

If on the other hand Mars was in the twelfth in Capricorn in a night chart, it would be in its exaltation. It's an honoured guest and the hotel is just fine. No expense spared to give him a good time. But the internet's still down and there is difficulty getting the job done. However Venus is in Pisces and is sextile Mars. Venus is the benefic of sect and Mars is just annoyed at not being able to get the job done but loves his surroundings. Venus is ruler of the ninth which is higher learning and technology and in the second which is funds.

Now there's a possibility that something can be salvaged from the situation, especially if Saturn were in the tenth (Scorpio). Saturn is the Ascendant ruler and in a night chart is malefic but there's a mutual reception with Mars through rulership and Mars has a mutual reception with Venus through exaltation and in both cases there is an aspect. It's not strong in either case, being only a sextile but the receptions suggest that things will work out. Perhaps not perfectly, remember Saturn is the malefic of sect, but at least the situation will get sorted.

In this case we need an aspect to the benefic of sect (preferably a trine) and an aspect to the ascendant ruler which is either trine or sextile. The Receptions secure the outcome, even if it's not perfect. Without those aspects, Mars would be quite happy using the minibar, which is stocked with his favourite drinks, and would have a good time doing very little that was constructive.

Click to expand...

Saturn is peregrine in Scorpio except for the last six degrees
- so Saturn would not be able to assist a Capricorn Mars in 12th
particularly in a night chart above the horizon in 10th
because there Saturn is not only peregrine but also Saturn and Mars are not sect mates and are pursuing opposing agendas