Collaborative Spread Creation #2 - Infidelity

rwcarter

BeyondtheVeil said:
Okay.. if a 5 card spread isn't enough for the info needed... what number of cards do you think would work?

I'm not sure if there is an "ideal" number of cards. For a larger spread, I think the number is best determined by the number of positions that add value to the spread without becoming padding.

BeyondtheVeil said:
I also have a twist... lol .. What if the person 'cheating" or could 'cheat' doesn't see a casual sex as cheating? Cheating can mean lots of things to different people. {I personally think if you go outside a relationship for ANYTHING {emotional, physical, etc} that IS cheating. So to throw another thing into it {Sorry Rodney}.. how would we cover that? Would there then need to be a position on 'Casual encounters" or something to that nature? Would that change the entire point/questions of the spread?

On the one hand, I think that's a whole different spread. But on the other hand I don't even think you need a spread. Person A has a different (i.e., much looser) definition of cheating than Person B. If Person A goes through with their much looser definition of cheating even though they know that Person B would consider it cheating, what kind of relationship do A and B really have? And why would Person B want to stay in a relationship with someone they know could cheat on them by their definition even if it's not cheating by Person A's definition?

We're not talking about the difference between "I like the toilet paper to come from the top of the roll" vs "Well, I like it to come from the bottom of the roll." In this day and age where sex can kill, if both parties can't agree up front what does and doesn't constitute cheating, then they should each find someone who has the same outlook (or at least an outlook that's much closer to their own) as they do.

So, yes, I think we (as as group) could come up with a spread to address that particular issue, but as Glass Owl indicates, other factors would also need to be looked at - insecurity, imbalance, disparity of views/lack of consensus on what constitutes "cheating", why the person with the more restrictive view would want to be in that kind of relationship, etc.

Rodney

BeyondtheVeil

rwcarter said:
I'm not sure if there is an "ideal" number of cards. For a larger spread, I think the number is best determined by the number of positions that add value to the spread without becoming padding.

On the one hand, I think that's a whole different spread. But on the other hand I don't even think you need a spread. Person A has a different (i.e., much looser) definition of cheating than Person B. If Person A goes through with their much looser definition of cheating even though they know that Person B would consider it cheating, what kind of relationship do A and B really have? And why would Person B want to stay in a relationship with someone they know could cheat on them by their definition even if it's not cheating by Person A's definition?

We're not talking about the difference between "I like the toilet paper to come from the top of the roll" vs "Well, I like it to come from the bottom of the roll." In this day and age where sex can kill, if both parties can't agree up front what does and doesn't constitute cheating, then they should each find someone who has the same outlook (or at least an outlook that's much closer to their own) as they do.

So, yes, I think we (as as group) could come up with a spread to address that particular issue, but as Glass Owl indicates, other factors would also need to be looked at - insecurity, imbalance, disparity of views/lack of consensus on what constitutes "cheating", why the person with the more restrictive view would want to be in that kind of relationship, etc.

Rodney

I guess that is what I was asking.. how would person A know that person B felt that way? I wasn't talking about a specific client asking because they 'knew" that the other person felt that way. I was bringing it up as a problem with trying to get a spread to address that. How would the person know that someone was even cheating then if there wasn't a feeling like the guilty party was even doing anything wrong? I don't know of a cheating spouse who says upfront.."Oh yes honey.. I am going to cheat". Now they may be some that do, but honestly... the majority don't. I also don't think I am the only reader who gets asked that question. I would think the majority of readings would be about 'love", what will happen between me and X, is there someone else, etc.

As for the issue with the person asking... I am personally not a counselor so it isn't my place to 'inform' the person that they are insecure, jealous, or in a bad relationship. That is none of my business and a decision that only the client/sitter can make. Therefore.. I don't think having a 'what is wrong with you " question in the spread would be valid. I only wanted a spread to figure out how best to answer the question. Then I thought "well so and so thinks that it isn't cheating if..." so I thought I would throw that out there. If someone doesn't think what they are doing is 'cheating", I wasn't sure if it would show up as cheating. I think that the person asking deserves to know if the person they are with, want to be with, etc is cheating or will. As you stated, in this day and age.. it could kill. If there is a reader that doesn't think that, then they should tell the client/sitter upfront that they don't do those types of readings. I personally don't have a problem with it. If the cheating party wants to betray, I see nothing wrong with letting the other party know and/or if it is possible in the future. That gives them something to look out for and they can then make an informed decision on what they want to do. They can also be aware so they aren't caught off guard. I also think that in some cases knowing that could actually save a relationship or even prevent it from happening. As we know that most things are not set in stone and there is free will. That also doesn't need to be covered in the spread because it is assumed that most readers tell the sitters that it isn't set in stone and that different things can happen to affect the future. I would hope that it is stated with ALL readings not just the ones on cheating.

I guess I didn't realize this would be a debate. I just want a spread. lol

As far as what was stated in glassowl's post, no disrespect but she said she stayed in that relationship for years fully informed on what would happen if she did. There was no betrayal or sneaking around in her case. I don't see how that is even sorta kinda a comparison to someone who doesn't know what is going on in the relationship and could KILL them. She was in no danger of death. She also knew for a fact of what was going on and chose to stay anyway. I don't feel that is the same as not knowing, but only suspecting. Suspecting doesn't equal cheating/stealing/whatever, but the person deserves to know if their fears are just that... only fears. If not, they deserve to not be dead because of a betrayal that was done to them without them knowing. Just my two cents.

If you don't want to continue with creating the spread, that is fine.No worries! ;-) I am sure I will figure it out. I don't feel it is unethical & I think if they ask, I should tell them. I will continue to do those types of readings. I will just focus on how to best get that info then turn it into a spread. It will be a good exercise to help focus. I think this is a good thing as it will definitely help me word things to get the most out of the reading.

Thanks anyway!

BeyondtheVeil

rwcarter

BeyondtheVeil said:
I guess that is what I was asking.. how would person A know that person B felt that way? I wasn't talking about a specific client asking because they 'knew" that the other person felt that way. I was bringing it up as a problem with trying to get a spread to address that. How would the person know that someone was even cheating then if there wasn't a feeling like the guilty party was even doing anything wrong? I don't know of a cheating spouse who says upfront.."Oh yes honey.. I am going to cheat". Now they may be some that do, but honestly... the majority don't. I also don't think I am the only reader who gets asked that question. I would think the majority of readings would be about 'love", what will happen between me and X, is there someone else, etc.

In an ideal world, when the two people decided that they were going to be a couple and they were going to be exclusive with one another, they would have had a talk about boundaries and what's considered crossing those boundaries. Cause Person A can't really cheat on Person B if A and B never had a discussion about being "exclusive." If B just assumed that A would never stray cause they were a couple but never had that discussion with A, A is under no obligation to meet B's unspoken expectations.

Having a feeling that one's mate is cheating may be quite valid. But on the other hand if I am insecure and see every gesture my mate makes that's not directed toward me as a sign of my mate cheating, my "feeling" may not be as valid.

BeyondtheVeil said:
As for the issue with the person asking... I am personally not a counselor so it isn't my place to 'inform' the person that they are insecure, jealous, or in a bad relationship. That is none of my business and a decision that only the client/sitter can make. Therefore.. I don't think having a 'what is wrong with you " question in the spread would be valid. I only wanted a spread to figure out how best to answer the question.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that a "what's wrong with you" position is needed. You'll come across clients who have a valid suspicion that something's amiss in their relationship but who for whatever reason don't want to confront their mate about it. But as I tried to indicate above, you'll also come across clients who are seeing things that aren't there.

So I believe that a position that addresses why the Querent thinks their partner is cheating is at least equally as valid if not much more valid than a position that addresses whether the partner is cheating. (Especially in a spread on infidelity, I would caution against any positions that amount to a Yes/No on the subject. As a reader, you don't want to emphatically say, "Yes, your mate is cheating on you" or "No, your mate isn't cheating on you" and be wrong. You want to present the info to the sitter in such a way that they make up their own mind about the answer.)

BeyondtheVeil said:
Then I thought "well so and so thinks that it isn't cheating if..." so I thought I would throw that out there. If someone doesn't think what they are doing is 'cheating", I wasn't sure if it would show up as cheating. I think that the person asking deserves to know if the person they are with, want to be with, etc is cheating or will. As you stated, in this day and age.. it could kill.

Whether or not you as a reader can address the subject of whether a person who's not present at the reading may be doing something that the person who is present at the reading would consider cheating really depends on if there are any positions that address that issue and how they are worded.

Forgetting for a moment my aversion to Yes/No positions in spreads, if there were a position labeled "Is the partner cheating on the Querent?", you as a reader really don't know from whose perspective to answer that question. You could assume that you should answer it from the Querent's perspective, but the cards may be answering from the partner's perspective. And if those perspectives are vastly different, you could give the wrong answer. That's why I believe there would need to be two different positions related to that question - one from the Querent's perspective and one from the partner's perspective. (And they shouldn't be Yes/No questions for the reasons I've already stated.)

And as I've already said, I don't believe that I as a reader can say one way or the other if someone will ever do something.

BeyondtheVeil said:
If there is a reader that doesn't think that, then they should tell the client/sitter upfront that they don't do those types of readings. I personally don't have a problem with it. If the cheating party wants to betray, I see nothing wrong with letting the other party know and/or if it is possible in the future. That gives them something to look out for and they can then make an informed decision on what they want to do. They can also be aware so they aren't caught off guard. I also think that in some cases knowing that could actually save a relationship or even prevent it from happening. As we know that most things are not set in stone and there is free will. That also doesn't need to be covered in the spread because it is assumed that most readers tell the sitters that it isn't set in stone and that different things can happen to affect the future. I would hope that it is stated with ALL readings not just the ones on cheating.

I have avoided the ethical question about reading for someone who's not present and will continue to do so. Ethics are a personal choice and therefore are up to each reader to decide for themselves.

Even if a reader does a whole Broadway production number about the reading reflecting energies that are present at the moment and those energies often change so that what's said could easily not come to pass because something has changed, that won't stop the client from hearing "this is what's going to happen regardless of what I do." That's one of the reasons I tend to avoid predictive readings and instead prefer to do insight readings. It's the difference between "this is what's going to happen in your relationship with X" and "this is what you need to understand about your role in the relationship...." While there are lots of people who think differently, at the end of the day we each can only control our own actions. We can't control the actions of another.

BeyondtheVeil said:
I guess I didn't realize this would be a debate. I just want a spread. lol

I prefer "discussion" but that's probably a to-may-to/to-mah-to distinction.

BeyondtheVeil said:
If you don't want to continue with creating the spread, that is fine.No worries! ;-) I am sure I will figure it out. I don't feel it is unethical & I think if they ask, I should tell them. I will continue to do those types of readings. I will just focus on how to best get that info then turn it into a spread. It will be a good exercise to help focus. I think this is a good thing as it will definitely help me word things to get the most out of the reading.

Thanks anyway!
BeyondtheVeil

Who said we weren't continuing :?:

I think we created a spread to address the original constraints. We've been discussing the salient points that need to be included in a spread for the wrinkle that you threw in. And until we come to some consensus on what positions need to be included, we can't really continue with the creation of the new spread.

(If you agree that we've created the original spread you were looking for, the creation of the second spread should be done in a separate thread.)

Rodney

Glass Owl

BeyondtheVeil said:
As far as what was stated in glassowl's post, no disrespect but she said she stayed in that relationship for years fully informed on what would happen if she did. There was no betrayal or sneaking around in her case. I don't see how that is even sorta kinda a comparison to someone who doesn't know what is going on in the relationship and could KILL them. She was in no danger of death. She also knew for a fact of what was going on and chose to stay anyway. I don't feel that is the same as not knowing, but only suspecting. Suspecting doesn't equal cheating/stealing/whatever, but the person deserves to know if their fears are just that... only fears. If not, they deserve to not be dead because of a betrayal that was done to them without them knowing. Just my two cents.

I think you may need to reread what I wrote - I really don't understand where you are coming from with this. I was in an abusive relationship where my partner (who was not a cheater) was paranoid and believed that I was cheater when I was NOT. I shared my history in attempt to illustrate the fact that not all people who are accused are guilty of any wrong doing and I hope that a tarot spread isn't used to falsely convict someone or fuel someone's unfounded suspicions. This is why I believe that a Tarot spread of this nature should address the underlining issues surrounding it as well as some positive guidance for the querent on how to deal with the situation.

BeyondtheVeil said:
She was in no danger of death.

Just for the record, yes, at times I did fear I was in danger of death. I was emotionally and physically abused. My ex was so possessive and fearful that I was cheating on him that he threatened me many, many times that he would kill me (and in graphic detail) if he had "proof" that I was cheating on him.

BeyondtheVeil

rwcarter said:
In an ideal world, when the two people decided that they were going to be a couple and they were going to be exclusive with one another, they would have had a talk about boundaries and what's considered crossing those boundaries. Cause Person A can't really cheat on Person B if A and B never had a discussion about being "exclusive." If B just assumed that A would never stray cause they were a couple but never had that discussion with A, A is under no obligation to meet B's unspoken expectations.

I guess I was assuming! lol I just "assume' that if a man married a woman taking the vows of 'forsaking all others" that they didn't need to separately then talk to each other about being exclusive.

I guess I can only speak in my personal life, but it was clearly understood in marriage and serious dating that we were exclusive and if he cheated.. he was out the door. I also said that if you ever find someone else that you want to be with.. tell me.. I will divorce you, and be on your way.

I am not being mean.. I just figured it is stupid to have someone cheat when we are all free to do what we want after we let the other person know.
If a client/sitter asks about 'cheating" then it clearly is that there was a 'talk", vow, something that suggests that. The question/twist that I threw in came when I heard that a guy said that cheating is "when they have another girlfriend/mistress/etc behind the wife's back. They can even have an 'emotional" relationship". Then when asked further if 'casual sex" like a one night stand or with 'no love" .. that same person said that it would not be cheating. Now.. I KNOW if that person had told his wife that before marriage or during dating.. well lets just say that they would NOT be married. That relationship would not have continued past that point. {Which he knew and even stated}. So.. that is a creep who could kill his wife. So for me.. I don't have an issue with letting his wife know if he cheats or not. LOL He should be man enough to say himself, but lets be honest.. they usually aren't.

rwcarter said:
Having a feeling that one's mate is cheating may be quite valid. But on the other hand if I am insecure and see every gesture my mate makes that's not directed toward me as a sign of my mate cheating, my "feeling" may not be as valid.

Then as a reader we can say.. "It seems that you may just be afraid that your mate will cheat, but there doesn't seem to be any signs at this time that it is happening or will". Don't you think that the person deserves some peace even if they are just insecure, jealous, whatever. Saying that could really help that person. Especially those who believe all of this.

rwcarter said:
I don't think anyone was suggesting that a "what's wrong with you" position is needed. You'll come across clients who have a valid suspicion that something's amiss in their relationship but who for whatever reason don't want to confront their mate about it. But as I tried to indicate above, you'll also come across clients who are seeing things that aren't there.

Sorry! I guess I thought that since there was so much talk about 'clearly the person is just insecure, jealous, something wrong with them as it could never be that someone gets an accurate feeling of their spouse cheating", I think someone did actually suggest a [why are you feeling so insecure position}. That to me, IS a [what is wrong with you spread}. That is assuming that the cheating spouse/mate isn't cheating when the reader hasn't even done a reading and has no way of knowing. Like I stated in my originial post, atleast for females, when someone thinks their partner is cheating.. they usually are. That is just having a ton of female friends and being one myself.. it is just weird how that works out. Some could just have been in denial, but others just have this 'gut' feeling that seems to always be true. So, if someone comes to me and asks {female} if their spouse is cheating... I probably wouldn't do a position on why they are insecure. I may reword it to say.. why do you have these suspicions , but not why are you insecure.I think using 'insecure" is rude and assuming they are stupid.

rwcarter said:
So I believe that a position that addresses why the Querent thinks their partner is cheating is at least equally as valid if not much more valid than a position that addresses whether the partner is cheating. (Especially in a spread on infidelity, I would caution against any positions that amount to a Yes/No on the subject. As a reader, you don't want to emphatically say, "Yes, your mate is cheating on you" or "No, your mate isn't cheating on you" and be wrong. You want to present the info to the sitter in such a way that they make up their own mind about the answer.)

Totally agree!

Why the querent thinks their partner is cheating is good!

I can get accurate yes/no readings, but to be honest.. it doesn't account for certain things that I think you are talking about. Is my partner cheating? Can also come up that yes.. they are [cheating} on a test, etc. lol So.. that can definitely be tricky. I am new to reading for strangers and it is amazing all the things I have encountered with the simple way of "wording questions". The yes/no can also do exactly what you were saying too.

I am not sure that I like the person makes up their own mind about the answer. I went to one reader about something {didn't go back} for that same reason. As a paying customer.. if they don't give me anymore info than I had, why pay them? How have they helped? Again.. instead of taking these sitters or questions, I think the reader should tell the person upfront that they are not going to tell them what they want to know. It just saves time and frustration for both parties. I also think that most people going to a Tarot reader aren't doing so for 'self improvement" but rather to find something out. {I am solely speaking from a paying client viewpoint and the people that I have known that have gone to one}.

rwcarter said:
Whether or not you as a reader can address the subject of whether a person who's not present at the reading may be doing something that the person who is present at the reading would consider cheating really depends on if there are any positions that address that issue and how they are worded.

Yes, I totally agree! The wording of a question is very important. I had actually overlooked that.

rwcarter said:
Forgetting for a moment my aversion to Yes/No positions in spreads, if there were a position labeled "Is the partner cheating on the Querent?", you as a reader really don't know from whose perspective to answer that question. You could assume that you should answer it from the Querent's perspective, but the cards may be answering from the partner's perspective. And if those perspectives are vastly different, you could give the wrong answer. That's why I believe there would need to be two different positions related to that question - one from the Querent's perspective and one from the partner's perspective. (And they shouldn't be Yes/No questions for the reasons I've already stated.)

Yes.. this was why I was asking about the twist. lol So, how would we word the question to actually find out {not yes/no} if the querent's partner is actually cheating. {even just casual sex with no love or meaning}.

rwcarter said:
And as I've already said, I don't believe that I as a reader can say one way or the other if someone will ever do something.

No, I realized that too. I do think we can say for the next year or so though. If the person asking is already suspecting.. I am sure if it isn't already happening.. it soon will be. [ if it were to happen at all}.

rwcarter said:
I have avoided the ethical question about reading for someone who's not present and will continue to do so. Ethics are a personal choice and therefore are up to each reader to decide for themselves.

Definitely. I don't have a problem with it though because I think if it affects another person.. then it is their right to know. {especially if it could cause death to the unknowing party}.

rwcarter said:
Even if a reader does a whole Broadway production number about the reading reflecting energies that are present at the moment and those energies often change so that what's said could easily not come to pass because something has changed, that won't stop the client from hearing "this is what's going to happen regardless of what I do." That's one of the reasons I tend to avoid predictive readings and instead prefer to do insight readings. It's the difference between "this is what's going to happen in your relationship with X" and "this is what you need to understand about your role in the relationship...." While there are lots of people who think differently, at the end of the day we each can only control our own actions. We can't control the actions of another.

I think if there are a lot of major arcana cards,.. it will happen. That is my experience with the cards. It is rare, but it does happen. My professional reader friend who is also psychic, taught me that. Like I stated above, I am learning that Tarot and being psychic aren't the same. lol I was going on people being psychic not just looking at cards. I guess that would definitely make all the difference. I am still learning, but that is major to know for me.
I am not sure that all people realize this. I can honestly say that I definitely did not know that.

rwcarter said:
I prefer "discussion" but that's probably a to-may-to/to-mah-to distinction.

Oh okay! I haven't participated before and it seemed like a 'debate" so that is good to know. Discussions are good.

rwcarter said:
Who said we weren't continuing I think we created a spread to address the original constraints. We've been discussing the salient points that need to be included in a spread for the wrinkle that you threw in. And until we come to some consensus on what positions need to be included, we can't really continue with the creation of the new spread.

I thought since there was an debate.. errr.. discussion on ethics and the querent is crazy.. that no one wanted to make the spread.

rwcarter said:
(If you agree that we've created the original spread you were looking for, the creation of the second spread should be done in a separate thread.)

Rodney

Sounds good! I will go look at the spread. Thanks so much!

BeyondtheVeil

Glass Owl said:
I think you may need to reread what I wrote - I really don't understand where you are coming from with this. I was in an abusive relationship where my partner (who was not a cheater) was paranoid and believed that I was cheater when I was NOT. I shared my history in attempt to illustrate the fact that not all people who are accused are guilty of any wrong doing and I hope that a tarot spread isn't used to falsely convict someone or fuel someone's unfounded suspicions. This is why I believe that a Tarot spread of this nature should address the underlining issues surrounding it as well as some positive guidance for the querent on how to deal with the situation.

My question on a this spread was not about an abusive party, but someone who was very upset and worried about their partner cheating. I didn't see how comparing your situation to a person who actually was getting cheated on was the same. I still don't. I will reread, but honestly I don't see the link.

Another difference is that you stayed in your situation knowing, not just suspecting, how your partner was, correct? How is that even the same as someone not knowing and wanting to know? An abuser isn't the same thing as a person suspecting their partner is cheating. If they had proof or knew, they could make the decision knowingly like you did. I am not being mean, but honestly.. you chose to put up with what you did. I was in an abusive relationship too.. so that is why I am calling you out on it. We both CHOSE to stay when we clearly should have left. It was totally my choice though and I don't blame anyone but myself. {including him}. He only did to me what I "LET" him do. If I had been gone the first time.. he couldn't have done it anymore, right? Same with you. I was just saying that you can't take your choice to stay in an abusive situation as the same as a person who is NOT abusive. Those are apples and oranges. If the person is 'just insecure" then the reading would come up as not cheating anyway, right?

I wasn't meaning to be mean or hurt your feelings.. I was only stating that you made your choice to stay with someone who you clearly knew abused you. Why shouldn't others get to make the same choices you got to make with knowledge that they deserve to know? Cheating seems to have nagging doubts, but hardly any proof. Those snakes are pretty sneaky. lol

Glass Owl said:
Just for the record, yes, at times I did fear I was in danger of death. I was emotionally and physically abused. My ex was so possessive and fearful that I was cheating on him that he threatened me many, many times that he would kill me (and in graphic detail) if he had "proof" that I was cheating on him.

I am sorry that happened. It is scary, no fun, etc. Been there done that too! My ex was cheating though. I was just hoping he would find some other nut and leave me alone.

I think that if a cheating partner can cheat and put an unknowing partner at risk of death.. then it is the unknowing partner's right to know. I hope that you can see the total difference in your situation with an abuser compared to an upset, grieving partner who is probably crushed by something that they didn't choose to stay in. I think everyone deserves the right to make their decisions based on things that they know. It shouldn't be made for them.
Now if after they found out that their partner is cheating and decide to stay anyway.. then they have made an informed choice. Just my two cents.

rwcarter

Just a few followup points.

Your mention of marriage made me realize that I was working on a spread that covered any two people in a relationship, be that dating or marriage. Most married people do take a vow to forsake all others, so the assumption about exclusivity can be made. In the case of two people who are dating though, exclusivity can't be assumed by anybody (reader, sitter or partner). And because fewer assumptions can be made for a couple who are dating, my focus has been on covering the bases for that kind of relationship. And any wording of positions that covers a dating relationship has to be done in such a way that it also covers marriage.

Much like ethics, I think the question of whether a reader should give an answer or provide the sitter with the information that allows the sitter to come to their own conclusion is a personal decision. It's that whole give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish thing. I prefer to teach someone to fish. If they never come back to me because they wanted me to give them a fish, then that's OK cause I'm not the right reader for them.

I don't believe the twist can be covered within the existing framework of 5 cards. So it can be handled in one of two ways - either as part of an extended/larger version of the spread we've already created or as a separate spread. I think the existing spread (which we'll need to find a name for sooner or later) begs for a larger version of it. We may not know though until we're well into developing the larger version if the twist logically fits in or not.

Rodney

BeyondtheVeil

rwcarter said:
Just a few followup points.

Your mention of marriage made me realize that I was working on a spread that covered any two people in a relationship, be that dating or marriage. Most married people do take a vow to forsake all others, so the assumption about exclusivity can be made. In the case of two people who are dating though, exclusivity can't be assumed by anybody (reader, sitter or partner). And because fewer assumptions can be made for a couple who are dating, my focus has been on covering the bases for that kind of relationship. And any wording of positions that covers a dating relationship has to be done in such a way that it also covers marriage.

I was wanting a spread to cover all, but since you made the point that if they never 'said" exclusive then they can do what they want. So, I mentioned marriage as the lady asking is married.

They made a commitment/vow to be exclusive. {I guess I didn't want to make a spread just for her, but if that is what happens.. or 'marriage/serious exclusive relationship" then so be it. So.. if we have to pick.. then I would like to spread to be for the marriage/exclusively "only" couples. As that is why the question for the spread was raised.

rwcarter said:
Much like ethics, I think the question of whether a reader should give an answer or provide the sitter with the information that allows the sitter to come to their own conclusion is a personal decision. It's that whole give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish thing. I prefer to teach someone to fish. If they never come back to me because they wanted me to give them a fish, then that's OK cause I'm not the right reader for them.

Exactly.. that is my point. It should be upfront. If you aren't comfortable with doing something then you shouldn't. If someone else is or wants to know something.. that is their right to. I don't see a one is right and the other wrong. It is just a matter of meshing or not. I prefer to teach someone to fish also, but when they come to me after catching the fish.. I think I should also teach them how to clean & cook it.

rwcarter said:
I don't believe the twist can be covered within the existing framework of 5 cards. So it can be handled in one of two ways - either as part of an extended/larger version of the spread we've already created or as a separate spread. I think the existing spread (which we'll need to find a name for sooner or later) begs for a larger version of it. We may not know though until we're well into developing the larger version if the twist logically fits in or not.

Rodney

I have to agree. I thought this was going to be a lot easier than it actually is. lol I think the larger spread would definitely help cover some questions that a lot of us have. Or to simply clarify others.

I definitely want to keep the 'twist" question/idea in because I think that is essential to getting the reading for the lady.

Thanks for all of your help Rodney and everyone helping on here! What should we do now? afrosaxon's take/lay out has been really good to. More like {the questions} of what I was thinking. As time has gone on, it has become clear that there needs to be other things taken into consideration like you are bringing up. I think things look good so far.. we just need a bigger spread?

rwcarter

BeyondtheVeil said:
I was wanting a spread to cover all, but since you made the point that if they never 'said" exclusive then they can do what they want.

That's not quite what I said.

I said that one person can't be held to a standard or set of expectations that both people haven't discussed.

(But I said that in the context of a dating relationship, not a marriage.)

BeyondtheVeil said:
So.. if we have to pick.. then I would like to spread to be for the marriage/exclusively "only" couples. As that is why the question for the spread was raised.

I don't think we have to choose between one or the other. The best spreads can cover multiple situations in my opinion....

BeyondtheVeil said:
I prefer to teach someone to fish also, but when they come to me after catching the fish.. I think I should also teach them how to clean & cook it.

Touche!

BeyondtheVeil said:
I have to agree. I thought this was going to be a lot easier than it actually is. lol

That's why we're doing these collaborative exercises - to show folks who are interested in creating spreads the process behind creating them. As with most things that are created, there may be multiple failed attempts before just the right one comes to be. And while the process may not be easy, it's not impossible either.

BeyondtheVeil said:
I think the larger spread would definitely help cover some questions that a lot of us have. Or to simply clarify others.

I definitely want to keep the 'twist" question/idea in because I think that is essential to getting the reading for the lady.

Thanks for all of your help Rodney and everyone helping on here! What should we do now? afrosaxon's take/lay out has been really good to. More like {the questions} of what I was thinking. As time has gone on, it has become clear that there needs to be other things taken into consideration like you are bringing up. I think things look good so far.. we just need a bigger spread?

So it appears that we're in agreement that a larger version of the existing spread is needed. Now we need to start thinking about what other positions need to be included in the extended version of the spread.

Rodney

rwcarter

Before we can move onto the larger spread, we need to determine which of the three versions of the 5 card spread we're using:

afrosaxon's original version:

1.........3

........................5

2..........4

1) Why I think my partner is cheating on me

2) Physical indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me

3) Emotional indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me

4) How I should cope with the possibility that my partner is cheating on me

5) Outcome of my partner possibly cheating on me

SilentBreeze's tweak of afrosaxon's positions:

1) Physical indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me

2) Emotional indicator(s) that my partner is cheating on me

3) What is actually happening?

4) How I should cope with the possibility that my partner is cheating on me

5) How will the situation change/or not change in the within the next 3 months?

or my tweak of layout and positions:

1.............
...............
......3.......
...............
.............5
...............
......4.......
...............
2.............

1. Why the Querent thinks their partner is cheating on them
2. The physical indicator(s) that make the Querent think their partner is cheating on them
3. The emotional indicator(s) that make the Querent think their partner is cheating on them
4. What is actually happening with the partner
5. What the relationship will look like 3 months from now

FTR, my ego is not at all involved in this, so I won't be hurt if my version isn't chosen. :angel:

Rodney