Piatnik TdM cardstock Q

gregory

Le Fanu said:
Funny... my Ignaz Krebs (yes this is the one we were discussing) is dated 1984 as first edition and comes in a red box. You must have a pre-first edition :)

I meant flawed in the sense that I think some of the cards may be "not quite authentic 18th Century". And did they colour in with coloured pencils in 1713? Some bits look odd.
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That is really weird. How can I have a PRE first edition ??? :confused: But the box is different in some ways - the text says: "Made by Ignaz Krebs from Freiburg (Germany) before 1800, following the example of the Ancient tarot de Marseille. It consists of 78 cards now carefully reprinted after the original wood block print." Also in French. It has a copyright date of 1983 on the BIX - but there is (now I have it out) a CARD inside saying copyright 1984..... And calls itself the Tarot Rhenan - though it is clearly the same deck....

Which cards are the coloured pencil ones ???
 

Astraea

gregory said:
But the box is different in some ways - the text says: "Made by Ignaz Krebs from Freiburg (Germany) before 1800, following the example of the Ancient tarot de Marseille. It consists of 78 cards now carefully reprinted after the original wood block print." Also in French. It has a copyright date of 1983 on the BIX - but there is (now I have it out) a CARD inside saying copyright 1984..... And calls itself the Tarot Rhenan - though it is clearly the same deck....
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This issue was discussed here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31099&highlight=krebs.
 

gregory

Thanks !

But it doesn't explain why others have it in this different box from mine ! or which are the coloured pencil cards !
 

Astraea

They are just different printings, I think. Both decks were published by Piatnik, the one in the blue box in 1983 and the red, 1984 (at least, that is true of my copies). The images and colors are identical except that the later one has a yellowish cast. The Two of Cups in both decks bears the Krebs name. To me, none of the cards appear to have been colored by pencil.
 

Le Fanu

gregory said:
Which cards are the coloured pencil ones ???
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The coloured pencil ones are in the "Tarot de Nostradamus" not the Ignaz Krebs Piatnik one...

Look at the Emperor´s shield. There are others, but I don´t have the deck to hand. But looking closely, I don´t think this Nostradamus deck is a woodcut one. I think it´s partly painted and partly coloured pencils...

A casual glance through the deck and you´ll spot the coloured pencil ones!
 

gregory

Ah oops. OK - I don't exactly have mine to hand either, but will make sure it is before I pontificate further :D
 

gregory

OK so –

I got out the LWB on this one - Nostradamus (*confession* I tend not to read the TdM LWBs....* :| )

And yes, in a manner of speaking you are absolutely right.

The guy who put the deck together (whose signature looks much like “Dominique Welby” but the name isn’t printed out anywhere...) is the first to admit it is a reconstruction. He says that he found sheets of some of the images in the library of the Château de Verderonne – uncoloured – called “facsimiles” of the "Notredame de Sal...." He then consulted a tarot historian friend (I suspect Borvo, see below) who pointed out the differences and similarities between it and his Payen, not least the titles (Aenobarb for Emperor, for instance) and he later found info about this retitling in a 2 volume book published by Jean de Bonnot, “Oracles de Nostradamus”.
He goes on to say himself that he then reconstructed the deck, partly from the images in the castle – which were b/w so he will have coloured them himself, yes – and for the cards that were missing from those sheets, using the Payen deck in Alan Borvo’s collection (he of the de la Rea, and a solid tarotist.) This would explain why some cards look very woodcut and others don’t.

I still like it :D And I'd say the crappiest card - as in recolouring - is the Chevalier dEspe, myself.... ;)
 

Yves Le Marseillais

Tarot of Nostradamus

gregory said:
OK so –

I got out the LWB on this one - Nostradamus (*confession* I tend not to read the TdM LWBs....* :| )

And yes, in a manner of speaking you are absolutely right.

The guy who put the deck together (whose signature looks much like “Dominique Welby” but the name isn’t printed out anywhere...) is the first to admit it is a reconstruction. He says that he found sheets of some of the images in the library of the Château de Verderonne – uncoloured – called “facsimiles” of the "Notredame de Sal...." He then consulted a tarot historian friend (I suspect Borvo, see below) who pointed out the differences and similarities between it and his Payen, not least the titles (Aenobarb for Emperor, for instance) and he later found info about this retitling in a 2 volume book published by Jean de Bonnot, “Oracles de Nostradamus”.
He goes on to say himself that he then reconstructed the deck, partly from the images in the castle – which were b/w so he will have coloured them himself, yes – and for the cards that were missing from those sheets, using the Payen deck in Alan Borvo’s collection (he of the de la Rea, and a solid tarotist.) This would explain why some cards look very woodcut and others don’t.

I still like it :D And I'd say the crappiest card - as in recolouring - is the Chevalier dEspe, myself.... ;)
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Hello,

Man who build up together this cards is Dominique Webb a french Magician now more or less retired in Saint Barthelemy Island (a fiscal paradise full of rich people you knows ;)) He originated from Lyon city area in France.

Yves Le Marseillais
 

gregory

Thanks, Yves ! This place is great for added info !

(And when I say the crappiest card, BTW, that was just because the colouring shows. I do LIKE the deck - and how else could he have done it for mass markets ?)
 

Le Fanu

gregory said:
Thanks, Yves ! This place is great for added info !

(And when I say the crappiest card, BTW, that was just because the colouring shows. I do LIKE the deck - and how else could he have done it for mass markets ?)
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Yes, the knight of swords is a bit rubbish. Not very 18th Century. But why do I love this deck so much? Maybe I have a taste for mish-mash in a world where tarot decks try to be "authentic". Nice to see slip ups like this :)
 
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