Marseille Wands

Bertrand

This is an important project for me. I'm trying to get to the essence of tarot by asking, what would the average guy on the street in mid-15th-century Milan or Ferrara see in these images?
although it is a century later... "Explaining the Tarot" edited, commented and translated by Caldwell, Depaulis and Ponzi is definitely the book you must read (it won't enlighten you much about the essence of tarot, it will indeed enlighten you a lot about what the probably-a-bit-more-than-average 16th century guy saw in it).
http://www.maproompublications.co.uk/

Bertrand
 

Sherryl

Hi Bertrand,
Explaining the tarot is a wonderful book. What a gift to the tarot world! I was thrilled to see the Bagatto associated with an innkeeper. I've wondered why Dellarocca put a glass of wine in the Bagatto's hand in his soprafino deck. The bagatto is a shoemaker in that deck, and it seems he was conflating two traditions: Bagatto as craftsman and as innkeeper.

I've just pulled the book off the shelf to re-read. Thanks for reminding me.
 

tedglart

Apologies if I'm stating a well-known commonplace, but the one thing that the Bagato and Bataleur have in common is that they are a secular parody of what the churches represent. Their tables are mock-altars. The Bataleur's wand is at the same angle as the Pope's two-fingered blessing, which itself points, not straight up to the heavens, but at the round symbol of the material world on top of his golden sceptre. An innkeeper would be an excellent worldly stand-in for a priest since both deal in the dispensing of bread and wine. I'm not sure what to make of the idea of the Bagato as a shoemaker. Making him a carpenter would be too obvious I suppose. In Shakepeare's time to be "bootless" was to be helpless, so cashing in on people's helplessness might be suggested by his profession. Also our feet, since they touch the earth, are our lowest least-spiritual part. Isn't it true that medieval markets were often set up in the precincts of the local cathedral or church, and moved inside during bad weather. I suppose it was only the money-lenders that Christ cast out of the temple. A street magician would be under the same roof as the priest officiating at the Mass. The priest himself is also dealing in magic. God makes people appear and disappear - at birth, at death - just as the Bataleur manipulates his coins. That odd shaped flower/plant/shrub between the legs of the Bataleur looks like an anus to me. (No jokes please.) The whole card seems to be delivering a message that the world of matter is foul compared to the life of spirit. Yet the face of the TdM Bataleur makes him such an attractive character. The Bagato is the kind of seedy rogue that we would expect, but seedy rogues often don't see themselves in that light. They see themselves as attractive rogues. So perhaps the French TdM Bataleur is more subtle in its condemnation of the worldly.
On another topic, the Hanged Man card seems a specific reference to the well-known diagram that illustrates the Tree of Life of the Cabala, except that the limbs of the tree have been lopped off, the highest and the lowest have been reversed - head and feet - and the Hanged Man's genitals are where the 6th sephiroth, Tiphareth, the centre of spiritual Love, should be. Is this card specifically anti-semitic, or anti-Judas at any rate? We all betray our own deepest spiritual interests on an hourly basis so we are all our own Judas. Do the two growing trees on the Star card represent the rebirth of the two dead trunks on the Hanged Man. And the two towers on the Moon card? Their positions, all like goalposts or "gateless gates", suggest some kind of connection.
 

Sherryl

The Bataleur's wand is at the same angle as the Pope's two-fingered blessing, which itself points, not straight up to the heavens, but at the round symbol of the material world on top of his golden sceptre. An innkeeper would be an excellent worldly stand-in for a priest since both deal in the dispensing of bread and wine.
Wow, I never thought of that connection. In some pre-TdM decks like the Tarot de Paris, the bagatto has dupes standing in front of his table trying their luck at his game, perhaps analogous to the people kneeling before the Pope?

I'm not sure what to make of the idea of the Bagato as a shoemaker.
I think I heard someone speculate somewhere that "bagatto" was Milanese slang for a shoemaker. It's possible this card stands in for the entire working class, but still, why a shoemaker and not a butcher or baker?


The whole card seems to be delivering a message that the world of matter is foul compared to the life of spirit.
If this is so, then the message has gotten lost over the centuries. In contemporary TdM books, he has very positive meanings derived from seeing him as a clever, energetic youth who will go far on his charm and wits.

Do the two growing trees on the Star card represent the rebirth of the two dead trunks on the Hanged Man. And the two towers on the Moon card? Their positions, all like goalposts or "gateless gates", suggest some kind of connection.
More great analogies! Enrique Enriquez suggests looking at symbols across cards that are on the same level. So, the Hanged Man's foot, the large star and the Moon are all on the same level and potentially interchangeable. The foot is trapped between the "gates" while the Moon and Star have transcended.
 

tedglart

How cool that a classic Enrique 3 card reading has swum up out of nowhere: Star/Hanged Man/Moon. They must have been summoned by the original question from "cjxtypes" (Cindy) requesting the group's general feelings about the suit of Wands/Batons. That would explain why the action in each card in the reading is framed by an upright baton. There are two living trees to the right and left of the Star woman. These trees have been chopped down and their limbs cut off to create the gallows for the Hanged Man. Where the limbs have been cut the sap is still wet, and red like blood. In the Moon card the two towers must contain structures made from the dried timbers. As we move from left to right across the three cards, the energy in the wood gradually drains away. There is also a progressive stiffening. This is just as we would expect, because the first card must refer to Batons II/III/IIII; the second to Batons V/VI/VII; and the third to Batons VIII/VIIII/X.
In the Star card, which refers to the early cards in the suit, it is morning. The Morning Star dominates the dawn sky and the first bird is starting to sing. The naked woman is pouring water into the river in an act of unending generosity. In fact she is the actual source of the river. So in the early cards of the suit we have the innocence of a new day and so much abundant energy that we can afford to share it.
The Hanged Man card is an image of retention, of energy held in check. His body is vertical like the hands of a clock at noon. Human hands have shaped the previously living trees into a device designed to establish control over others and to punish. So in the middle cards in the suit the exercise of power has become an enemy of our basic humanity - turned its qualities on its head. The Hanged Man's hair is like the Sun, flanked by the Stars and Moon, but it is being submerged underground, and his hands are tied behind his back so he cannot give.
In the Moon card it is night. The crab in the water and the two dogs are less than human, straining upwards, constantly craving a source of light that is millions of miles away. The two towers must be at war, or perhaps they are guarding a pass, blocking our way forward. The fat part of a droplet of water is at the bottom, so the Moon must actually be sucking moisture from the Earth. Perhaps we see the crab so clearly because the lake has been drained almost dry. How different from the Star card. So in the later cards of the suit the initial overflowing of loving energy has become transformed into spiritual dryness and fixed attitudes of confrontation.
That's the general drift of the suit of Batons for me but I'm not sure how I would relate those feelings to specific details in individual cards in a reading. This seems easier to do in Cups and Coins, the "red" or "female" suits, since the suit symbols are not repetitively connected in the same basic shape in every card, but divided into unique, symbolically suggestive arrangements by the leaves and flowers. But you need to be as imaginative as Enrique to squeeze much juice even from this. The network of batons does gradually become more fixed and interwoven as the suit progresses, and the vegetation gets less luxuriant - disappearing altogether on the VIIII. But in a reading, if there is only one Baton card, then what is there to compare it to? "Less" or "more" have no meaning.
Maybe the mistake is to expect a colourful array of meanings from a Marseilles minor card, as you can in a reading using the illustrated minors of the Rider-Waite-Smith deck. The minors have a humbler function in the Marseilles. But maybe that's as it should be, and a strength. When I read with the RWS I tend to make very little distinction between a Major and Minor image. They are all equally appealing to the eye. And equally anodyne. Maybe the way to read with the whole Marseille deck - if you feel as if you need to - is to split it into Majors, Minors, Courts and come at the same question from three angles. I'd be very interested to know what methods people have worked out to use the whole deck. I'm still struggling. It's not such a problem if you ascribe meanings (from numerology, astrology, cabala, etc) to the minor cards. But if you're just working from the visual appearance of the cards, as if they were paintings in a gallery, which I find the most convincing and powerful method of reading cards for others, then it's a bit of a conundrum. It's comforting to hear Enrique still occasionally scratching his head over this one.
 

tedglart

In the post above, in the first paragraph, "framed by an upright baton" would made more sense if I had said "framed by two upright batons".
 

Sherryl

So in the later cards of the suit the initial overflowing of loving energy has become transformed into spiritual dryness and fixed attitudes of confrontation.
That's the general drift of the suit of Batons for me but I'm not sure how I would relate those feelings to specific details in individual cards in a reading.
I like how you saw an analogy for the progression of the Batons suit in the Star, Hanged Man and Moon – the life force going from abundant to reserved to dried out. I often see the sequence in this suit as increasing burdens or responsibilities and the struggle of the upright baton to stay organized and deal with it.

Maybe the mistake is to expect a colourful array of meanings from a Marseilles minor card, as you can in a reading using the illustrated minors...The minors have a humbler function in the Marseilles.
Now you've got me going! I have to get on my soap box when I see my best friends, the pips, being dissed. No, they are not humble - they have a very important function. They focus the multi-layered, archetypal trump cards and anchor them to the real world. They tell you whether your problems are romantic or financial; whether you are experiencing a minor annoyance (2 of Wands) or a major brick wall (8 of coins). In October 2013, I put up a blog post where I used entries from my tarot journal to show how the Four of Coins as my card-of-the-day described very different experiences over the years, from curling up with a book on a rainy day, to feeling trapped in an aching body, to getting all my papers organized.

Here are a few examples of the colorful array I've seen in the batons at one time or another: Dueling laser swords, exploding fireworks, a butterfly, a conductor and his orchestra, a filigreed ornament, tight corset, scissors snipping blossoms from the stem, a group handshake.

I sometimes see a person with arms and legs spread out – doing jumping jacks? Yoga? Making snow angels? What's in the center – a knot in their stomach, shield over their heart, corset?

The Cartomancy section of my Tarot Heritage website has ideas and exercises for making friends with the pips so you don't have to treat them like the lepers of the tarot deck.

Maybe the way to read with the whole Marseille deck - if you feel as if you need to - is to split it into Majors, Minors, Courts and come at the same question from three angles. I'd be very interested to know what methods people have worked out to use the whole deck.
For years, I've pulled one trump and one suit card as my card of the day. I blend the cards and read them as a unit, not as two angles on the same situation. When I get all suit cards in a three-card reading, I take the sum and use the corresponding trump card as an underlying theme. When a pip turns up in a spread, I don't see it as a problem to be overcome.They can be just as visually exciting as a trump card.

It's not such a problem if you ascribe meanings (from numerology, astrology, cabala, etc) to the minor cards. But if you're just working from the visual appearance of the cards, as if they were paintings in a gallery, which I find the most convincing and powerful method of reading cards for others, then it's a bit of a conundrum. It's comforting to hear Enrique still occasionally scratching his head over this one.

Assigning key words to pips using number plus element, or kabbalistic correspondences, is one way to get started, and it's something to fall back on when things get confusing, but I don't advocate depending on a system. I see each pip card as a vortex of energy first, then I see what images want to come up. Images will appear in your mind if you haven't already decided that the pips are just unexpressive dead weight.
 

Sherryl

The Batons speak for themselves

I'm climbing down from my soapbox after that last post, and letting the Batons speak for themselves. I went through my Pierre Madenie deck until I came to the first baton card, then I took the card before and after it in the stack to get a three card statement: Four of Swords, Two of Batons, Ten of Cups.

The flower enclosed by the swords is suddenly free in the Two of Batons, and is doubling its fun. I can feel the exuberance, like being let out of a stuffy classroom on a beautiful spring day. The vigorous life in the center card is receiving water from the 10 of Cups. The Batons have the reputation of being stiff and formal, but the 9 and 10 of Cups have the same energy: stiff rows of evenly spaced figures, like little tin soldiers. But they are supporting the sideways cup that is pouring out its life-giving water. Perhaps the nine cups are the worker bees of the water system, all the mechanisms that go into delivering water from the aquifer to your faucet.

If you see the batons as tree branches, then the hard wood of the stiff branches and trunk support the leaves and flowers. During winter, the dead looking stiff branches hold the juice and the vitality inside. In the two of Batons, the life force is exuberant and barely contained.

The sum of these three cards is 17: the Star, emphasizing the life-giving waters pouring onto the batons to nurture their vitality.

I think the batons are saying, "without me you would have no spring flowers, no fruit trees, no wood to build your houses, no Stradivarius violins, no fences to mark your boundaries, and no creative energy. So don't dismiss me as stiff and boring and unexpressive!"
 

tedglart

Sherryl, thank you so much for your inspiring post. It took me many years to overcome my preference for the candy-coated modern decks and start to appreciate the poetry in the TdM, and now I can see that I need to put a lot more energy into the pips. I suspect I may just have very little visual imagination. But perhaps if I spend more time with them I will start to develop my own vocabulary for building metaphors. I really admire the enthusiasm and optimism in your readings. It's made me realise what a "Gloomy Gus" I can be. And thank you for directing me to your Tarot Heritage website. It looks like exactly what I've been hoping to find. All the best.