Tarocco Bolognese

I just received this deck, a modern version published by Dal Negro. It's a 62-card deck made specifically for gaming. Basically it's a standard tarot deck, with the 2 through 5 of each suit in the Minors removed.

The Majors are more or less standard tarot images, or at least standard enough for me to be able to identify them (the cards are untitled, and only some Majors have numbers, and they aren't the standard numbers for those cards), except for four cards -- for those four (standard tarot cards II, III, IV, V) there are images which I can't match to the standard tarot images. I'm sure this deck follows a pre-1910 pattern, so I'm posting in this forum in hopes that someone here could help me.

You can see some cards of the deck here (and this is also where I bought it):

http://www.houseoftarot.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=13&products_id=362

Please note that the site is mistaken when it identifies it as a 78-card deck. It's only 62 cards.

One of the unidentifiable Majors can be seen on that page, go to the card scans and click to enlarge. It's the middle card in the top row.

The other three cards show:

A woman with hoop earrings who holds three arrows.

And the next card's image is used for two cards:

The same hoop-earringed woman but this time holding a spear.

To reiterate, these four cards must be the Papess, Empress, Emperor, and Pope, since all the other Majors are accounted for. Of course, it's possible that there is no real correlation to be found.

If anyone would like to see the three unidentified images (the fourth is, as I said, visible on the website above), let me know and I'll scan and post them.

It's an interesting deck. It's very utilitarian, very playing-card-ish. Yet, there is an esoteric touch -- the World card shows Hermes, complete with winged feet, winged hat, and caduceus, standing on a sphere divided into four parts. The deck comes with a booklet in Italian that only discusses, as far as I can make out, rules of gaming.

Thanks in advance --
Lee

Lee, to start...

1. Bolognese Pattern

http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards14.htm

The 62 Tarocco and 40-45 card Tarocchino has become my gentle summer learning--they are beautiful and related patterns and I'm waiting sister decks to your Dal Negro one. Tarocco Bolognese draws from the beautiful Mitelli and Estensi heritage...

Andrea Vitali's beautiful presentation book has history and many samples of historic 62 ...and even full scans of the smaller cousin 40-card deck...

2. This Ottrocento page is hopefully also useful:

http://www.pagat.com/tarot/ottocen.html

PM me offline so I can chat more about what might interest you. Then once you determine might be relevant for further discussion or followup, other links, etc...others may also add more to this.

It's an incredibly rich learning deck for me now...

Cerulean

Thank you so much, Cerulean! The first link you gave has the info I was looking for. I had actually checked the Andy's Playing Cards site, but missed that section (the organization of the site is a bit of a mystery to me). Also, most of the images on that page are actually from the deck I bought, so anyone interested in the deck can click on that link to see lots more cards. There's even a scan of the World card I mentioned in my post.

Here's what Andy says about the four cards I had wondered about:

A distinctive feature of this pattern is the group of four male characters of equal rank, into which the classic trumps Popess, Empress, Emperor and Pope were turned in early times. Initially known as the Popes, they were renamed the Moors (also referred to as the Moorish Kings, or Small Moors), following the ban issued in 1725 by pope Benedict XIII upon the use of "the Pope" and "the Angel" as names for playing card subjects; the latter, though, was never changed nor dropped.

The modern Moors (the central one is repeated) and (far right) a Moor from a 1850 edition. In 18th and 19th century editions they were four different personages, very similar though not identical, whose faces were brown, in accordance with the subject, but in the following century one of them was duplicated (i.e. three different, one of which double), and the tanned face detail was discontinued.

from http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards14.htm

Click to expand...

So, it turns out I mistook the gender of the person on the Moor cards. Rather than a hoop-earringed lady, it is a hoop-earringed gentleman, who wears earrings because he is a Moor, you see.

So now I'll just have to figure out how to interpret these cards if I use the deck for reading.

Thanks again, Cerulean!

-- Lee

Lee said:

I just received this deck, a modern version published by Dal Negro. It's a 62-card deck made specifically for gaming. Basically it's a standard tarot deck, with the 2 through 5 of each suit in the Minors removed.

The Majors are more or less standard tarot images, or at least standard enough for me to be able to identify them (the cards are untitled, and only some Majors have numbers, and they aren't the standard numbers for those cards), except for four cards -- for those four (standard tarot cards II, III, IV, V) there are images which I can't match to the standard tarot images. I'm sure this deck follows a pre-1910 pattern, so I'm posting in this forum in hopes that someone here could help me.

It's an interesting deck. It's very utilitarian, very playing-card-ish. Yet, there is an esoteric touch -- the World card shows Hermes, complete with winged feet, winged hat, and caduceus, standing on a sphere divided into four parts. The deck comes with a booklet in Italian that only discusses, as far as I can make out, rules of gaming.

Thanks in advance --
Lee

Click to expand...

Lee, I think it's great you want to start reading with this deck. Allowing for the the changes over the centuries (dropping cards and changing Popes to Moors), I believe it is the oldest and best form of deck. There is a divinatory tradition peculiar to Bologna, which has recently been studied by Terry Zanetti and published in Vitali and Zanetti "Il tarocchino di Bologna" (Edizioni Martina, 2005). I'll post the meanings of the cards for you soon, when I get more time. There are also specific layouts.

Even if you don't read Italian, I highly recommend your getting this book. You'll figure it out. It is the perfect - if not the only - accompaniment for reading with the Tarocchino Bolognese.

Lee said:

So, it turns out I mistook the gender of the person on the Moor cards. Rather than a hoop-earringed lady, it is a hoop-earringed gentleman, who wears earrings because he is a Moor, you see.

So now I'll just have to figure out how to interpret these cards if I use the deck for reading.

-- Lee

Click to expand...

These cards "Moors" were changed deliberately by Papal edict around 1725 (Bologna was a "Papal" city for a long time and the church could get people fined and/or jailed for religious offenses). They used to be "Popes", and they looked like this -
http://www.geocities.com/anytarot/earlybologna.html

These cards are from a pack in the Bibliothèque nationale in Paris, and they are dated to before 1725 because of the presence of the "Popes". I think the consensus, for artistic reasons, is that they are from around 1650.

In the game as played, the Moors (and Popes) all had equal rank. This is why they are more or less alike - and two are identical. You might want to read the Moors as if they were the normal Popess, Empress, Emperor, Pope, because that is what they were originally. Or you might try to read them from the signs on the modern cards. Clearly it is your choice.

Ross G Caldwell said:

Lee, I think it's great you want to start reading with this deck. Allowing for the the changes over the centuries (dropping cards and changing Popes to Moors), I believe it is the oldest and best form of deck. There is a divinatory tradition peculiar to Bologna, which has recently been studied by Terry Zanetti and published in Vitali and Zanetti "Il tarocchino di Bologna" (Edizioni Martina, 2005). I'll post the meanings of the cards for you soon, when I get more time. There are also specific layouts.

Click to expand...

Thanks very much for your comments, Ross! I found it quite intriguing that you think the Bolognese is the best form of the deck, and it helps me feel validated in my admiration for it. If you'd like to post some meanings, it would be much appreciated!

These cards "Moors" were changed deliberately by Papal edict around 1725 (Bologna was a "Papal" city for a long time and the church could get people fined and/or jailed for religious offenses). They used to be "Popes", and they looked like this -
http://www.geocities.com/anytarot/earlybologna.html

Click to expand...

The Popes as shown in that link are very interesting, because they seem to be a stage in the evolution between pre-Bolognese decks and the modern Bolognese I have. In that link, the four cards do indeed appear similar, yet one can still basically make out the Popess, Empress, Emperor and Pope. In my modern deck, one can no longer discern the original characters, and in fact two of the cards have duplicate images.

The other four cards shown in that link are interesting as well, because they contain elements (like the cup-shaped fountain on the Lovers) that are also found in my modern deck.

Thanks again!

-- Lee

Tarocco Bolognese from R. Somerville

Just got it...the Modiano small cards in a green box is similar to the divinatory section of the presentation book from Vitali et al...and the same as the cards pictured in the Ottocentro link of my first post.

Yes, two of the 'Moors' are the same character...

But as I was starting to look at the presentation book by Vitali et al, I found a first page reference to Dante Algheri...now this links Bologna back to an antiquity that I enjoy...

And I just got sidetracked into downloading English version of the Dante- Giovanni correspondence of the Eclogues...hope to return to Bolognese Tarocco over a holiday weekend.

I look forward to any other discussion and ideas!

Cerulean

Here's an idea that just occurred to me for the Bolognese Minors. Since there are six numbers (Ace, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10), one could use the seven astrological planets of antiquity (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn). Since there's one more planet than numbered card, one could either leave out one of the planets, or alternatively, assign that planet to the four Moors. Perhaps the four Moors could be assigned to the Moon. That way, different facets of the Moon could be thought of as supplying some characteristics of both the Popess and the Empress (which are missing in the Bolognese).

So, one could assign them as follows:

Aces = Sun
6's = Mercury
7's = Venus
8's = Mars
9's = Jupiter
10's = Saturn

And the Moors = Moon.

If one was astrologically inclined, one could go further and use Robert Wang's scheme of assigning the four suits to the four cardinal signs (Batons = Aries, Cups = Cancer, Swords = Libra, Coins = Capricorn) so that each numbered Minor will be assigned a planet in a sign (for example, the 9 of Swords would be Jupiter in Libra). (Wang assigns the planets to the numbers differently than I have).

It would be difficult to assign the Moors to suits, since two of the four cards are identical. So the Moors would simply be the Moon without a sign. They could be thought of as showing more mundane or everyday characteristics of the Moon than the actual Moon card. (Likewise with the Aces versus the Sun card.)

-- Lee

You are reminding me a little of a folkloric thing

that I read in a catalogue where I remember the names of each day had a talisman/amulet assignment astrologically... Lundi-Monday, Mardi/Mars-Tuesday-red, Mecredi/Mercury-Wednesday, etc., has a planet for a day of the week and there is a color associated with each planet, etc.

If you were to align Le Soileil/Sunday/Aces/First Hour, that might work for timing...I don't know about folk idealism of numbers with the planets--since Mercury is quicksilver and a communicator, I almost see him as an odd number... Mars is the War God as well, so I see his bright red number as odd, Venus is his consort in a harmonious sense...oh well, I'm stretching my imagination on this. Thanks for the ideas, Lee, as you are more astrologically educated than myself.

I do enjoy this deck and the history associated with it already.

Regards,

Cerulean

What strikes me as VERY interesting about the cards pictured in the link above (repeated here):http://www.geocities.com/anytarot/earlybologna.html is the LACK OF TITLES and barely noticable numbers.

While I'm sure the double-sided cards are lovely, but what a rare gem these full images are! In fact, there are so many interesting details about these images I would love to see images from an entire deck.

Do the images exist anywhere? Is a Bolognese deck published that is full faced and without titles????

thanks,
robert

ps
Justice in color:
http://www.albamontuori.it/t_giustizia.htm