What's so great about the Jacques Vieville Tarot?
stella01904
Not to mention the square corners! Don't forget those!le pendu said:
Le Fanu
Having just vowed to dedicate myself to the Vieville deck (see my thread on "Help Im Becoming an Addict!"), Im enjoying absorbing myself in this deck. Is this thread up for reviving? I mean, can I post my thoughts on this deck here? Im seeing so many extraordinary things in this deck. I followed this thread avidly before ordering it from Alida. Then when it arrived I wasnt disappointed...
For starters, all three figures on The Lovers card look male. No other women in the deck have hair cropped that short...Fascinating....
For starters, all three figures on The Lovers card look male. No other women in the deck have hair cropped that short...Fascinating....
Debra
Oh yes lets! We had a lot of fun the last time. (here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=77388) so I would love to see what you see in this deck!
Le Fanu
I wondered afterwards whether I should have posted this resuscitated thread on your Vieville through beginners eyes, which I read and found fascinating. I also read your article, and it really got me going on this most unusual deck. I feel, after bombarding myself with different decks of late, and spending, and restless etc, that I want to focus on just one, and I chose this one. It is the most atmospheric and magical of decks. The more I look, the more I adore it. I missed these threads the first time round,but they continue to send me off to look ever-more closely. This is a deck which really invites prolonged, studious looking. I spent an hour or so in bed today, just looking! Plus its an excellent edition, good card, not too glossy and slippery and facsimile-looking.
Do you think the Lovers card really is all male? No women in the deck have hair like that!
I love the limited palate too. The strong colours. Unifies the whole. Plus the lines cut into the woodblock, which throw up some extraordinary forms and perspectives. I don´t subscribe to the "badly done" theory. I prefer to think that it is full of mysterious forms which our eye is not so trained to see. This deck has secrets!
As for the Tree-not-Tower card, I find myself thinking it´s a positive card. Those gobs which rain down and which The Sun also has, must be light I suppose. It reminds me of an 16th century painting here in Lisbon of the Pentecost and light comes down in gobs not rays. I like this meaning of "epiphany" which was suggested. Enlightenment.
Ive got to work now, no time for more just now...
Do you think the Lovers card really is all male? No women in the deck have hair like that!
I love the limited palate too. The strong colours. Unifies the whole. Plus the lines cut into the woodblock, which throw up some extraordinary forms and perspectives. I don´t subscribe to the "badly done" theory. I prefer to think that it is full of mysterious forms which our eye is not so trained to see. This deck has secrets!
As for the Tree-not-Tower card, I find myself thinking it´s a positive card. Those gobs which rain down and which The Sun also has, must be light I suppose. It reminds me of an 16th century painting here in Lisbon of the Pentecost and light comes down in gobs not rays. I like this meaning of "epiphany" which was suggested. Enlightenment.
Ive got to work now, no time for more just now...
le pendu
Le Fanu said:
Hi Le Fanu, welcome to the History section!
I read the addiction thread you mentioned; and am delighted that you've chosen the Vieville, it is my personal favorite of all the tarots. I hope you find it to be as lively, funny, revealing, and interesting as I have over the years. It's wonderful that you've chosen to study it, and it exclusively, through the month of March 2008.
I'd love to aid you and join in when and how I can, in any method that best suits your personal style of study. How would you like to spend the month studying? What would help maintain your interest and bring you excitement and joy as you study the deck?
If you'd like to read what others have said about the deck, I can give you a few links; or you might prefer to spend some time on your own with it before being too influenced by other's thoughts, and "history", that's fine too.
May I recommend that you try to leave your preconceptions of what a particular card "means" behind for this experiment? Instead, look at the Vieville with, as Debra would say, "beginner's eyes". Let each card introduce itself to you. The courts on the Vieville are particularly wonderful. Look at the faces, look at the postures, look at the clothes... THEN try to decide what the personality of the card is... rather than thinking something like "swords = thoughts, Valets=messengers", or such. Let each card tell you who they are instead, let their personalities speak!
I love looking at the details on this deck. Look at the buttons on the clothes, look at the ruffles, and brocades, and metalwork of the crowns. Each one one is different. Lay out all the courts together. Ask yourself about the kings. Who is most fair? who is most fearsome? who is most trustworthy? What about the queens? Which looks best suited to rule in times of war? Who would make the best Queen were her king to fall? Look at the helmets on the Knights, what do they tell you? Look at the stances of the horses, what are their motions? Look at the Valets, with what are they occupied?
If each of these courts represented a different kingdom, which kingdom would you want to live in? Imagine a map and place the kingdoms on the map... who would you put where? what would you name their lands? how close and distant are the lands to each other. Are there alliances between certain courts? Animosity?
Now with the Trumps... lay them out in the order (and orientation!) that Vieville did. Notice that the unusual sequence of Lovers, Justice, Chariot, Strength, Wheel, Hermit, Hanged Man. Notice the orientation of the hanged man if you turn him upside down so that the number is correct, did Vieville really see the card this way instead? Look at all the differences are in this deck to what we would ordinarily find... often little things.. but often telling us a bit about how Vieville saw the meaning of each card.
I realize that in some ways the way that Vieville cut the characters gives them a strange, angular look; but once you "get into" his quirky style, the "intention" of each of them starts to become more obvious... I guess it's becoming familiar with a graphic language.
I hope you love the deck, and the experience of studying it for a month. Good luck, and ENJOY!
Le Fanu
Thank you so much Le pendu for your wonderful post! I feel so inspired by it! I feel that, for now, I really just want to look as intensely and as questioningly as I can at these images. I appreciate your pointers, and yes I shall follow them. Some Ive already done. I found it from the very beginning irresistable to turn Le Pendu the other way up! I shall look hard and wallow deep in the images. I know that there is a tendency for people to see the graphic style as quirky and a bit "primitive." I dont think it is. There is an enormous amount of sophistication in his way of seeing. Or in what he was trying to represent
It truly is the most extraordinary collection of images. I think it is the most magical tarot deck Ive ever seen. Since I got back into tarot after a few years of other things, it was one of the decks which most attracted me, but I held out a while, and ended up buying others and getting distracted and a bit swamped. It thrills me now that I can post any thoughts and questions here, be heard and deepen my understanding as I go...
It truly is the most extraordinary collection of images. I think it is the most magical tarot deck Ive ever seen. Since I got back into tarot after a few years of other things, it was one of the decks which most attracted me, but I held out a while, and ended up buying others and getting distracted and a bit swamped. It thrills me now that I can post any thoughts and questions here, be heard and deepen my understanding as I go...
Le Fanu
Ok, just some preliminary questions. Im absorbed in these images and last night I lay all the court cards out on the bed and had a good look. I just have a few questions which Im curious about even though they don´t particularly relate to the deck iconographically.
The booklet which comes with the deck is in French and I dont have a reading knowledge of French. What is the text relating to this deck? Can you - or anyone - translate what is written on the spine of the box, the Ace of Pentacles, the two of Cups? Where can I find out info on this deck, the history of it etc? Ive read the synopsis here on AT, plus Ive followed the thread, but Id really like a bit more historical context. A link would be fine. Probably very little is known about it apart from the date. Is it Belgian? (I guess I should know this. I ask because the Devil looks like the one from the Vanborre? tarot - can´t remember the name - and Ive seen it excluded from the TdM tradition on certain grounds. So I guessed its from the Low Countries).
Also, a question for Le Pendu (or indeed anyone else who uses this deck). Is this your regular - and favourite - reading deck or is it your favourite from a solely historical / iconographic perspective? What spread do you use with it?
Is this a recently reissued deck? I started buying decks early 80s, (and it certainly wasn´t available then) and then stopped for a few years . I cannot understand how something so extraordinary hasn´t been constantly in print.
Just curious...
The booklet which comes with the deck is in French and I dont have a reading knowledge of French. What is the text relating to this deck? Can you - or anyone - translate what is written on the spine of the box, the Ace of Pentacles, the two of Cups? Where can I find out info on this deck, the history of it etc? Ive read the synopsis here on AT, plus Ive followed the thread, but Id really like a bit more historical context. A link would be fine. Probably very little is known about it apart from the date. Is it Belgian? (I guess I should know this. I ask because the Devil looks like the one from the Vanborre? tarot - can´t remember the name - and Ive seen it excluded from the TdM tradition on certain grounds. So I guessed its from the Low Countries).
Also, a question for Le Pendu (or indeed anyone else who uses this deck). Is this your regular - and favourite - reading deck or is it your favourite from a solely historical / iconographic perspective? What spread do you use with it?
Is this a recently reissued deck? I started buying decks early 80s, (and it certainly wasn´t available then) and then stopped for a few years . I cannot understand how something so extraordinary hasn´t been constantly in print.
Just curious...
le pendu
Le Fanu said:
I've just a second...
Translation: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=22381
Reading: I'm not much of a reader, I'm much more interested in the history. When I do read, it's the Vieville, Noblet, Cosmic Tribe, Thoth, or Prague.
Printing: I think it's been "in print" since sometime in the 80s. Not sure how many are in print, and would not be surprised if it went out of print some day. (get it now!)
Skimo
The Viéville tarot is a french deck printed in Paris in 1650.
It has been republished in 1984 for an exposition about tarot and play cards.
I have ordered it, I can do the translation when I will receive it.
It has been republished in 1984 for an exposition about tarot and play cards.
I have ordered it, I can do the translation when I will receive it.
