kwaw said:
Aleph then is bagatell? I thought you were asking we explore all the possibilities with an open mind? I have my personal preferences, but I tried and maybe failed by trying to include all the symbolic references for each attribution and getting shot down for something I make complex which should be simple. And indeed it is simple, if you are convinced of your own opinion and not willing to contemplate the factors that lead others to a differenct opinion. Easy to mock, from a position of ill founded personal surety, the confusion and exploration of others. I am happy that you and huck find it so simple and certain, I don't.
Kwaw
Sorry, kwaw, the constrasts exists not between us as humble persons, but between two or three or 4 or some more states of "knowledge about and use of the alphabet", which appear in history.
1700/1800 perhaps invention of the Alphabet
BC----------- time of the "Master of the Alphabet"
--------------- who is a spontaneous literaric invention
---------------- but real, cause "somebody did it"
----------------- The god of the Canainites is a bull and
------------------ named EL, so it comes, that the first letter is
------------------- Aleph
----- the Alphabet spreads
before 1500 ---- the Egyptians had had a bad phase - foreign kings had ruled in the Delta Egyptia, they had gathered as workers and cooperators guys from foreign countries, not all from Egyptia. Probably one of the first was called "Joseph", who got a high job from the current pharao, which was probably a foreign Pharao.
Around 1500 ---- the Nile Egyptians throw the foreign Delta Egyptians out of the country. The kings, which are active in this process, mostly end in their name on -Moses or - Mosis. Ahmosis, Ka-Mosis, Thutmosis
They expand till Kanaan. Somehow they had to fill the new countries, so probably they tried to export the "foreign workers", which had made their home in the Delta-region during the occupied time, to this new countries. Some of them get lost in the desert in a free anarchic way to live, forming their own nomadic idea of life, not bounded by Egyptian laws.
Later they told, that a Moses, who was the son of a Pharao, but in "their" reality born by a correct mother, did lead them. Moses was accompanied by "Levites", which somehow were also Egyptians, but somehow not really in "their" reality. They became the priests, and somehow - they needn't to work.
Moses was against the "golden calf". In the Egyptian Delta-region, which is a good region to have cows and bulls and calves, this was an established cult - naturally - as in Canaan. But Moses didn't like it, he wanted the 10 commandments, which he got from God on a mountain. But when he got down from this mountain, they were already dancing around the golden calf, and Moses was furious and killed many. And he broke the 10 laws written on stone. And what happens, when you break 10 things? You've 20 then.
With this "20", the story becomes interesting.
At least since 2400 BC in Egyptia had been formed an ideal political structure of the country. At "upper Egyptia" (that's the upper southern Nile Region, there were 22 "Gaue" (destricts) and in each "Gau" they had different Gods, "Animal Gods". Also in the Delta region ("Lower Egyptia"), which had a lot of cows and bulls as gods - as already told, very naturally. The number of the Delta destricts was "20". And the old Egyptians took this 22 + 20 somehow very serious. Even, when in later time the real number of destricts was different, 39 or so, they still spoke from the 42 destricts. And they sculptured the signs of this 42 Gaue at the fronts and backs of their temples, 22 at one side and 20 at the other.
And in their religion, which had a lot to do with death and Osiris-cult and with the imagination, that Isis had the head of a cow, they thought of 42 "gods of the underworld" and when somebody was going to die, one had to talk with these 42 gods, that the passing person was a nice guy, not hurting this or that rule during his life.
Whatever this was, this "42", it somehow behaved like a "Tarot". It was sorted mathematically, and it existed figurative in the sculptures in the temples. It was an iconographical system with a fixed number or series of "pictures". An "Animal Tarot" of course, cause the Egypts had Animal gods.
And at least one of this both elements of the system with "20" and "22" had a row, cause the Egyptians had no choice, cause life in Egyptia at the Nile had only sufficient conditions in the Nile region. And the destricts in Upper Egyptia were naturally rowed by this and their geographical position - like an Alphabet.
And somehow a river is not only like an Alphabet, like a snake, it is long and has a begin and an end. So the snake became the symbol for Upper Egyptia and the Pharao put the snake-symbol at his crown to express it. And somehow - this already was the Alphabet. Nobody knew it already, as all things develop slowly.
And Lower Egyptia got Horus as symbol, the hawk-god, cause a hawk, when it spreads its wings looks like a delta at a landscape.
And the Pharao puts hawk and snake at his crown, when he was regent in Upper and Lower Egyptia.
So you've there a sort of "First known Tarot" - but of course, it was not the first Tarot, and it still hides its real substance, and still it is totally hidden, why Moses was so furious.
(just an exerpt of the funny explorations and talkings of autorbis)
..... just the question is still in the air, why 0 + 12 + 20 = 32,
also the humble philosophical question, what is ox and what is tail, not to forget about forests which disappear behind trees ...
... and about the art of the Irish bardes
Easy to mock, from a position of ill founded personal surety, the confusion and exploration of others. I am happy that you and huck find it so simple and certain, I don't.
Hm. What would you propose to do about a worldwide spread laziness in thinking? Do you suspect, that "mocking" was the first act? Who is ill founded? Me or the books you read? Did me complicate matters or the informations you brought with you? Sure, there is a contrast ...
... a lot of bull**** is told in the world. It's up to you to decide what has some worth and what not.
This art is called critical thinking. Nobody told you, that you have to believe everything. You're strongly advised to think for yourself.
Kwaw told, a few posts before:
The letter shin is one of three so-called 'mother' letters and is attributed to the principle/element of fire, the symbol of G-ds judgement.
It has the form of a flame, with three tongues of fire rooted in a common base (the 'black coal').
**** the early shin knows writing forms, which didn't show the three tongues of fingers. It was called tooth and meant tooth.
The flames represent revelation and the finite and ever changing cosmos, the coal the hidden and changeless infinite spirit.
*** To whom? When even the flames are unsecure?
We have therefore an apparent duality between hidden/revealed, finite/infinite, changeable/changeless and cosmos/spirit.
**** What is apparent in this sentence? You've a humble letter. Duality is in all and everything, of course, but there is no need to lay any emphasis at this special object. Or?
We should not deduce from this a concept of physical type duality, of a separation and opposition between flesh and spirit.
**** Why not? If you are so free to see the worldwide duality just at this point, why exclude just this here?
As the flame is bound to the coal and sustained by the coal, so these dual concepts are bound together as one.
**** You're still at the unproven flame.
The three 'flames' correspond to the three pillars of the Tree of Life.
**** Cause 3=3? What makes them correspondence? The old letter had 4 strokes - how to explain them?
When the letter has a small dot over the right hand flame [pronounced Shin], it corresponds to the right hand pillar, the pillar of mercy and the inclination towards 'good'. When the letter has a small dot over the left-hand flame [pronounced Sin], it corresponds to the left-hand pillar, the pillar of severity and the inclination towards 'evil'. There is therefore a representation of another duality, of psychological and possibly cosmic form, between 'good' and 'evil'.
**** Are you citing? Why do you hit with all life-tree-symbology on the poor letter shin? What stays for all the other letters?
Again we need to qualify this dualistic concept. Although the flames are separate and opposite, they are rooted in the same coal and sustained by the same essence that is the creator of both. However, they are not created equal, for the evil 'force' or 'inclination' is time limited, it exists from the moment of creation to the day of judgement. The middle flame represents the middle pillar of the Tree of Life, the pillar of equilibrium. In the context of judgement we may imagine it as the fulcrum of a pair of scales, with the measure of good on one side and the measure of evil on the other, upon which balance we shall be judged.
**** Do you note, that you become complicated here? Poor Iustitia and old Maat are in the meantime all concentrating on poor letter shin, which means tooth. I know, that you learnt that from a book .... but now all good and evil things are in shin concentrated, what stays for the others?
The head Tefillim is engraved with a three headed 'shin' on one side and a four headed 'shin' on the other. The normal three headed shin is a symbol of 'this world', the four headed of 'the world to come', the post 'judgement day' world in which the final revelation, the revealing of the hidden divine essence within the cosmos has occurred; the New Jerusalem arisen. Here we encounter a difference between 'Christian' and 'Judaic' Qabalah. While Christianity shares with Judaism this eschatological dualism between 'this world' and 'the world to come', the divine revelation which is to occur has also, paradoxically, already occurred in the person of Jesus Christ as Saviour. Shin, as well as being symbolic of 'this world' [the 'world below' or 'cosmos'] is also symbolic of heaven, the 'world above'. To the eschatological duality is added the soteriological duality between those that accept and those that reject Jesus as Christ and Saviour, and shall be judged according to their belief or disbelief on judgement day.
***** Now the whole story of Judaism and Christianity is inside poor letter schin ... which means tooth. It seems we come to final judgments.
So there is symbolism that we may relate to either the concept of 'judgement' or 'world'. However the world of the normal, three-flamed shin is 'this world'; whereas, if thought of as part of an eschatalogical series, the world of the tarot, post judgement, would be considered the world to come.
***** Now "world of the normal", "world of tarot" and "world to come" - all in shin
We may also see in the three figures at the bottom of the judgement card a similarity to the shape of the letter shin. And like the attribution of the letter shin, the right hand figure like the right hand flame [attributed to the right hand pillar of the ToL] is male, the left female.
**** Alright - all and everything is now in shin. This must be "Judgment"-time. World is burnt now.
But my humble me .... is still alife. I do my mockery. Come, kwaw - take some water, that helps against too much fire, back to life, it was too early, still something left to study, you had a dream of medieval time in this letter, people often believed, that world would end soon, Filippo Visconti had 20 books with the Apocalypse.
What about the old form of the alphabet ? Why he called it tooth? Do you know that? Did you ever look at the old forms and how humble it developed?
It really looks like a tooth. Like a "w" as in k"w"a"w" - 4 strokes, not 3. Two coals or no coal.
Did they knew coal? Perhaps it was wood?
And about all these good and bad above - don't you think, that you did forget to tell anything of fresh air? Without air no fire. It's proven.
Air = aleph.