Need to know the actual spelling

HudsonGray

On the Conver Marseille:

is the hermit L 'Hermite or L 'Ermite?
Is the star Le Toille or L'Etoile?

I'm doing up the text on the Chat du Marseille this afternoon and was unsure of these two, my notes say both, but I want to be accurate & pick the right one.

(The deck should be printed very soon!)
 

Diana

L'Hermite.

Le Toule. Or Le Toiile. It is not clear and there is some contoversy about it. I suggest calling it L'Etoile.

(I sent you a PM.)
 

jmd

I personally agree with Diana, as a matter of personal preference...
 

Diana

Okay, I've come back about L'Etoile. I have been doing some more research on this.

It's a very painful decision you're going to have to make.

On the Conver, could be written either LETOULE, LETOILLE or LETOIILE.

The third option is probably wrong.

The second option is the most logical.

The first could be correct because it could be a word-play.

It's definitely one word though. There is no apostophe, nor separation of words. In the Conver, the words are separated by a dot.

If I were you, I would go for the second option. Or you could alternatively make it more "modern" by calling it L'Etoile - but then you're not sticking to the Conver.

Hudson Gray: Please don't put a space after the apostophe in L'Hermite (nor L'Empereur).

LAMOUREUX doesn't take a hyphen, by the way on the Conver. (Which makes me wonder if there is not some kind of word-play here as well.....)
 

HudsonGray

I want to be consistent, either way. Here's what I was told/found/given (I'm putting spaces in where they indicated, but I won't put dots)-----

Le Bateleur
La Papesse
L'Imperatrice (no space?)
L'Empereur (again, no space?)
Le Pape
LAmoureux ?This is ok, huh?
Le Chariot (thank gawd, an easy one)
La Justice
L 'Hermite (I'll go with this one)
La Roue de Fortune
La Force
La Pendu
La Temperance
La Maison Dieu
The damn star
La Lune
Le Soleil
Le Jugement (no D?)
Le Monde
Le Mat

Do all the L 'xxx get a space after the L or is it run together? It's 'based' on the Conver, but I can diverge a bit. I want it easy to understand for those new to a Marseille deck too.
 

Rusty Neon

Your preferred spellings, punctuation and spacing are beginning to look more like the 20th century spellings and punctuation used in the card titles of Marteau's 1930 Tarot de Marseille - which are all in modern French. Using Marteau spellings isn't necessarily a bad thing. Conver isn't the be all, end all of card titles names. (After all, Hadar thought fit to go even more retro with the card titles than those appearing in the Conver.)

The Conver spellings would probably make the greatest sense if you were making an antique-looking, woodcut deck. I don't know exactly what style your deck is going to be. But maybe you can go with modern spellings and punctuation and spacing. Many non-francophones know at least a little French; therefore, if you use 100% Conver titles and Conver's inconsistent presence/absence of apostrophe in L'xxxx, they may think that you've "mispelled" the titles. In fact, the fact of LEMPEREUR being spelled in the Conver as LEMPEREUP might indicate transcription errors, mistakes by unscholared printers, or as some pundits speculate, esoteric coding.

For consistency with the appearance of most of the titles in your list which are in modern spelling (including modern U instead of antique mix of U and V), punctuation and spacing, you may as well conform the few remaining non-conforming ones with modern spelling à la Marteau. Modern-day post-Marteau tarot decks in France generally use Marteau spellings and often replace any antique V's used by Marteau with modern U.

To conform with Marteau:

Le Bateleur
La Papesse
L'Impératrice
L'Empereur
Le Pape
L'Amovrevx (He uses the antique V instead of modern U, but you could use modern U)
Le Chariot
L'Hermite
La Roue de Fortune
La Force
Le Pendu
(Death - untitled)
Tempérance (note the absence of the article)
Le Diable
La Maison-Diev (antique V)
L'Étoile
La Lune
Le Soleil
Le Jugement
Le Monde
Le Mat

Marteau uses all upper case, by the way.

Note: I've left out the raised (mid-line) dots that Marteau placed between words in many of his card titles. There are dots between the words in all multi-word titles (i.e., all titles except those with one word or the article L'xxx), with the sole exceptions being Le Chariot and La Force.

I have the Conver decks, but the evening is running late, so I'll let jmd and Diana fill you in with Conver, if that's the way you wish to go.
 

Diana

I agree with Rusty Neon's suggestion that you use the Marteau titles. They make more sense today, and also people won't say "oops! this lady doesn't know how to spell."

You could go one step further and write "Maison-Dieu" and "L'Amoureux". (Because that's how they are spelled today and whether the "v" in the other decks was deliberate or not, is a matter of controverse amongst tarologues.)

If I were making a Tarot of Marseille, I would leave out the "v" and replace it by a "u". Most definitely.

I would use Upper Caps.

And indeed, Tempérance does not have an article before it. Rusty Neon is right to point this important fact to you.

No "d" in Jugement. That's the correct French spelling.

Don't forget - no spaces neither before nor after the apostrophe.