Spanish cards from late 1400's

I would like to offer anyone who hasn't seen these an opportunity to enjoy these cards, are they not very recognisable?

http://www.wopc.co.uk/germany/engraved.html

interesting information about the pomegranates too!


Allison

Thankyou allibee... seems like there are a few threads which have appeared in the recent past which really need to be carefully studied and commented on.

It really is quite important to consider how the various early cards may possibly inter-relate, and how some of what were clearly meant for entertainment may have also been found to be wonderful means to reflect something deeper.

It also seems that whereas Mamluk cards were quite sparce by European standards of imagery, this nonetheless may have permitted others quite free reign in how to re-interpret their imagery to items more pertinent to local desires. The sophistication of the engraving and printing techniques in southern Germany also permitted very fine designs indeed.

Do these relate to Tarot, and if so, how? - these are questions which also need to be addressed after we get a better sense for what was around in various parts of Europe and its trading neighbours.

jmd said:

Do these relate to Tarot, and if so, how? - these are questions which also need to be addressed after we get a better sense for what was around in various parts of Europe and its trading neighbours.

Click to expand...

I think that's what I'm trying to get at. I think only when we can see the tangible evidence of how far these things can go back, can we start to assess where the real crossover took place.

I mean take tea leaves for example. They had them swilling about in the bottom of their cups for years and then ONE DAY the first person said, do you know this looks like... a pig ... a leaf... a lady ... a house, etc, etc. It's funny that says their friend, my pig got knocked down by a flying house last week and I remarked that he looked like a flat leaf to this passing lady.....And then a normal activity becomes something 'deeper'.

I wonder if there had always been these pictorial cards and the someone decided to make something deeper of them. Or whether there was something deeper out there already that required specially illustrated cards. I think the former, personally.

My research leads me to the mamluks and the crusades as the point of entry into europe. Now do we know there were no illustrated cards?
The islamic faith demands that no living creature be depicted - I think, LOL - but then I came across this coin of the early period, when nearly all the others are scripted. Which begs the Q could other mamluk cards have been illustrated. Was there are predeccesor to them aswell, etc.

http://www.elsen.be/coinages/ori/coinageori_56.html

More ramblings, LOL

Allison

A note on coinage

http://www.amnumsoc.org/collections/cuislam.html

"The term "Islamic coins," in practice, is another way of referring to the coinage of the Near and Middle East after the rise of Islam in the seventh century. Rightly speaking, an Islamic coin is one designed following the traditions of Islam, that is, with inscriptions in Arabic script and no images. Nevertheless, there have been lots of coinages by Muslim rulers with images and inscriptions in other languages, and lots of coinages by non-Muslims (Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Confucians, for example) that have Arabic inscriptions and no images. Most collectors and scholars of Islamic coinage ignore the Islamic coinage of the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia. In sum, there's a difference between the theoretical and the practical."

That's a fun thing, to find the exceptions, because the add a bit to your research, yes!
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Some people do look at coins, tax stamps and such for proof of ruling times, as well as other accounting records, so you are on the right track. Of interest sometimes is if the culture did have some historic medals that depict icons of ruling families and associations. One of those little sidetracks I was looking at was Pisanello and his engraved images of D'Estes, as it gave a view of how the family wanted to be commerated. Leonello in particular was thrilled to get a medal of Julieus Caeser, his favorite hero, from someone at his marriage. I suspect that this encouraged a love of medals and Leonello's choosing of his heroic image of a lion...by the way, if I find a link, I'd like to post it somewhere, as it is a lion being tamed by Cupid.

I enjoyed the links.

Mari H.