Influence For Hermit?

venicebard

Melanchollic said:
The Hermit seeks to know the mysteries of life, and Death has the answer. Through Death can we know wisdom. The Fool represents the 'divine folly', the freedom from all conventions that great illumination brings.

In bardic terms, trump XIII is N, consonant of negation and newness (clearing the board in order to create a new pattern, so to speak), which is nion the ash, wood of handles (that whereby man grasps nature, wiping clean what it would have and replacing it with what man would have, as in the Aesop's fable concerning the forest offering man the ash from which he makes the axe-handle that spells the forest's doom). So trump XIII would be the equivalent of the "I am not this, I am not that" (Yoga) meditation whereby one disconnects with all the conventional self-definitions.

LeMat, in bardic terms, is the no-thing or space which separates people or objects and is H, or huath the hawthorn (a hedge), whose term in the (probably Orphic) hymn Hercules on the Lotus (reconstructed by Graves from the Boibel Loth names of the ogham letters) is 'I, the Benignant One' or 'Guardian of Boundaries'. It is what keeps one person from experiencing karma meant for another (though it does not of course prevent our feeling sympathy for other).

The uncertainty of death makes each moment precious, and therefore beautiful. It frees us from procrastination, the illusion that we have an infinite amount of time, that we can put off living until some future time. This is one possible way to see Death as Wisdom.

Certainly death is a goad, but it seems to me a deeper wisdom is to see each life as a bead on a long string of lives eventually culminating in enlightenment, else all would seem futile n'est ce pas?

There is also the 'allegorical' Death spoken of in many spiritual traditions. It is the death of the 'self' that enables us to be reborn on a higher spiritual level. This death appears often in alchemical engravings.

One should make clear distinction between death of the 'self' (which you rightly put in single quotes) and the denial of the existence of any individual self whatsoever (hence of responsibility), which is prominent in Eastern philosophy (and some Western mysticism) and even ascribed by the Theravada Buddhists to Gautama himself, thus distorting his anatta doctrine (futility of seeking self amongst the 5 skandas). It is definitely the ego, the false I, not the actual self, that alchemy seeks to 'kill', this in order that it cease to cloud one's view of the real or divine self beyond (when looking towards the inner horizon, that is, not the outer).

venicebard

Coll the Hermit

This thread being specifically about VIIII L'Hermite, I should have added that he represents (bardically) the wisdom that is 'gathered in a nutshell', meaning succinct. For 9 is coll the hazel and calls to mind the nuts that dropped from the 'nine hazels of poetic art' and enlightened the salmon (the 'one who returns') that swam in the waters below. It was one such salmon that Finn MacCumhail was cooking for a druid when it spattered onto his thumb and he sucked it and became wise, wisdom returning whenever he put thumb to mouth ('return' therefore in this case being infancy, when we return to earth to seek wisdom).

The image in the trump shows wisdom (in the form of age) 'gathered up in its cloak' and offering us its light for guidance. And K's or C's place on the cauldron is 30-degrees out from straight down (the cauldron extending from horizon without to horizon within) and thus signifies what is within reach when seated on the ground meditating. This points to the sense taste (that which can be conveyed to the mouth) and the element water (third element in nature, third manifested sign of cauldron, i.e. virgo), since things must be in solution to be tasted. Indeed taste and wisdom are ultimately synonyms, are they not.

[Note: planetary triads in astrology are derivative, not original, since the original or primordial triads are generated in their natural order fire-air-water-earth by the first four signs, each triad manifesting in the element following (air's capricorn triad therefore manifesting in water or virgo, the third manifested sign, manifestation meaning the lower half, our ground). Astrology's version and the distribution suggested by time and temperature (fire-south, earth-north, air-east, water-west) are encoded into the alef-bet order of letters by where each sign takes its element when the letters' original calendar-order is rearranged: the 12 simples samekh-tzaddi-cheyt-vav-ayin-qof-teyt-heh-zayin-yod-lamedh-nun assume the order heh-vav-zayin-cheyt-teyt-yod-lamedh-nun-samekh-ayin-tzaddi-qof, wherein the first four take their elements to the triads they occupy in astrology, while the last four (yod-lamedh-nun-samekh, since 'the end is in the beginning') remain on the same triad and the middle five generate the time-and-temperature version (that is, if we take the first three of these to represent the manifested elements themselves, not their triads).]

(Forgive me for being succinct and verbose at the same time.)

samten

Influence for Hermit

The picture in question is Emblem 42 from Michael Maier’s, Atalanta Fugiens, published in about 1618 in Germany. Here is the text from this Emblem.

MAY NATURE, REASON, EXERCISE & LITERATURE BE THE GUIDE, STAFF, SPECTACLES & LAMP FOR HIM WHO PARTICIPATES IN CHEMISTRY.

"Nature be your guide; follow her with your art willingly, closely,
You err, if she is not your companion on the way
Reason be your staff, Exercise may strengthen your sight,
On account of which things that are far away can be discerned,
Literature be your lamp, shining in the darkness,
In order to guard against an accumulation of things & words."

We can be fairly certain, from other evidence, that this figure represents Nature. The same picture appears on the Title-page of the 1625 edition of Musaeum Hermeticum. In this variation, a second figure, also with staff, spectacles and lamp, is seen crossing the bridge in the distance, and the figure of Nature carries a blazing Six Pointed Star, or Pentagram, in her left hand.

The three figures of the Title-page of The Hermetic Museum, suggest a process of continuity, a transmission of the Light. Embedded within this Emblem, is the principle of the Transmission of Wisdom, or Light, and this observation can be extensively expanded from the visual references available to us us.

The Emblem would therefore, simply put, indicate that ‘Wisdom Follows in the Footsteps of Nature.” And Wisdom, The Hermit, ' The Sage' or Arcanum 9, illuminates Nature.

"For Nature applied to Nature transforms Nature," as Zosimos the Alchemist puts in.

The same idea can be found in the Hermetica:

“When they had thus spoken, God smiled, and bade Nature be; and there came forth from his voice a Being in woman’s form, right lovely, at the sight of whom the gods were smitten with amazement; and God the Forefather bestowed on her the name of Nature. And he conferred on Nature the government of all things in the world below, and bade her be productive of all manner of seeds. And Nature communed with herself, and saw that she must not disobey her Father’s bidding; and . . . And God filled his august hands with the abundance of seeds which Nature supplied, and gripping the handfuls firmly, said . . . “

I have used the Scott, translation of The Hermetica, p.463.

These few ideas, can be extensively amplified in considering the symbolism of The Sage, Wise Man, Hermit.
Yours sincerely

Samten de Wet

jmd

Thankyou samten, it's a good reminder to also read source materials when they are available!

Alchemical studies - or at least having a look at their source materials - are undoubtedly an important part of understanding the culture, learning and mindset of the period in which tarot arises, but personally do not think that the trumps, as a sequence, reflect alchemical allegory nor that "the entire sequence of trumps is an exposition of alchemy".

Here and there, alchemical similarities, influences and common source impulses at work in the design to both tarot and alchemical figures may be at play. Of that I agree, but that is quite distinct to "the deck as a whole being a model of the universe of the alchemist" - except in the sense that by considerations of the deck as a whole, one may gain an insight into the predominant world view of the period, reflected in part in alchemy, in tarot, in other works of art, and in publications of various types.

venicebard

I realize I am but a cry in the wilderness, but I feel compelled to respond.

jmd said:
Alchemical studies - or at least having a look at their source materials - are undoubtedly an important part of understanding the culture, learning and mindset of the period in which tarot arises, . . .

I would say an important part of understanding reality, since alchemy (or perhaps more accurately, Hermetic science) is based on a much deeper understanding of both nature and man (i.e. mind) than the peckings one finds on campuses today, moreover a unified view, not one divided up into unrelated 'disciplines'.

. . . but personally do not think that the trumps, as a sequence, reflect alchemical allegory nor that "the entire sequence of trumps is an exposition of alchemy".

Here and there, alchemical similarities, influences and common source impulses at work in the design to both tarot and alchemical figures may be at play. Of that I agree, but that is quite distinct to "the deck as a whole being a model of the universe of the alchemist" - except in the sense that by considerations of the deck as a whole, one may gain an insight into the predominant world view of the period, reflected in part in alchemy, in tarot, in other works of art, and in publications of various types.

You are quite correct here in a strict sense and can certainly believe what you will. But my contention that TdM embodies the taproot of Hermetic science is not based on mere "similarities, influences and common source impulses" but on its structure.

Alchemy in the West hearkens back to Judaic roots, as Raphael Patai's The Jewish Alchemists suggests and the structure of tarot (parsed by Kabbalah and bardic lore) confirms. These roots are closely related, however, to the bardic tradition of the British Isles as regards tree-letters (whose kinship to Semitic letters is seen in such things as Q still picturing fruit-with-stem and Hebrew's yod hovering above the line to represent the mistletoe-like loranthus). Indeed there is reason to believe (and some evidence to support) that the 10 Sefirot were known in Britain as well (probable source of Kabbalah's expanded understanding of them after the period of contact with things bardic [12th-century Provence-Languedoc]).

Now since TdM's trumps, pips, and court cards cleary (as I have tried to show) represent the 22 letters, 10 Sefirot in 4 worlds, and 4-letter Name in 4 worlds, (in other words, the Qabbalistic cosmos) and since the letter-numbers and their distribution (via tree-calendar, with Sefer Yetzirah 'adjustment') show on deeper analysis the taproot of Hermetic science (columns of 7 planetary metals determining planetary rulership of signs and embodying deeper knowledge rivaling or surpassing modern physics and chemistry, as can clearly be shown), the issue, as far as I am concerned, is not even in doubt.

Though it disappoints me that few who frequent this forum have the courage to seriously consider a model that might challenge their favored beliefs, I harbor hope that in the long run, once it is set forth in book form (one or more to lay out the basic structure, and one or more to expand the argument in scholarly fashion), heads will be turned.

Signing off (for now) . . .

jmd

I do not think that you are correct when you say, venicebard, that "few who frequent this forum have the courage to seriously consider a model that might challenge their favored beliefs".

Rather, in specific reference to your own favoured belief, the case you have presented for a 'bardic lore' within tarot still appears incongruent with, and anachronistic to, tarot. For example, of the numerous early decks, none show (as an example) a "mother's arm" on the Pope card. It seems to me that one of the strong considerations of your approach comes from an early insight into possible connections the learned mind can always make, to concluding that this must in fact have been the case, to then jumping to seeing each instance of tarot development according to how closely it accords to this specific favoured belief and determine its accuracy by such proximity to that Weltanschauung.

Of course, for each of us, there will be resistance to considerations of seeing history, archetype or spiritual impulse apparently radically at odds with the evidence we have each individually previously considered. I would further suggest, however, that we would each duly consider such with evidence that matches historical finds of the period.

le pendu

venicebard said:
Though it disappoints me that few who frequent this forum have the courage to seriously consider a model that might challenge their favored beliefs, I harbor hope that in the long run, once it is set forth in book form (one or more to lay out the basic structure, and one or more to expand the argument in scholarly fashion), heads will be turned.

I think the only "favored belief" that I hold is that the TdM didn't originally have titles or numbers on it, and that the copies that we have are later adjustments to include that.

Other than that, I consider myself an "equal opportunity disbeliever" willing to consider any substantiated argument for the development of the Tarot. I lean towards the "established" theories of Dummett and his ilk simply because they have presented, what I consider to be, the most cohesive arguments.

In actuality, I am amazingly willing, (for whatever reason), to look elsewhere than the "Italy, 1400s" school; I hope, (for whatever reason), to find an alternative that makes more sense to me. So really, bring it on. I'm not on the defensive, I'm highly desirous of a better explanation than that the Visconti court created it! What a horrible bummer that would be!

So far, nothing you have presented, as far as I can see, conflicts with my "favored belief"; so that in itself is no reason to discount what you have presented. As I have said numerous times, I believe the challenge is in the presentation itself which causes, at least for me, a "shut down" to your prepositions. I have offered to help any way that I can to provide a clear, easy-to-grasp presentation that allows others to judge the validity of your theory on the merits of your evidence; that offer still stands. I have asked repeatedly for a simply presentation that takes the pieces of your theory step by step, starting from a "big picture" overview and gradually adding in the detail as each larger idea is presented and accepted. Instead, I continue to find myself bombarded by miscellaneous references that are backed up only by your own perspectives.

I think it is worth pointing out that I have invested the time to read your presentation on Tarotpedia, and am still at a loss to grasp your theory. Were I in the minority, I would assume that the content was "over my head", but I think rather, the content is not clearly presented, and therefore, undecipherable to most who try to comprehend it.

So there it is. I'm completely willing to declare the Bardic Alphabet as the birthmother of the Tarot; but I'm not going to until you provide a comprehensive, persuasive argument that I should. The reason I am not declaring it now is not because I have a "favored belief" that blinds me from accepting your theory; but that you have not successfully convinced me, the willing, to come to agreement with your argument.

John Meador

a tantrum of ilk

le pendu said:
Other than that, I consider myself an "equal opportunity disbeliever" willing to consider any substantiated argument for the development of the Tarot. I lean towards the "established" theories of Dummett and his ilk simply because they have presented, what I consider to be, the most cohesive arguments.

Speaking of whom, I just stumbled upon these remarkable exchanges:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=7140

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/7009

-John

venicebard

John Meador said:
Speaking of whom, I just stumbled upon these remarkable exchanges:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/article-preview?article_id=7140

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/7009

-John

Michael Dummett sounds like a very objective person: does anyone know where I can obtain said book? I would absolutely love to read it.

le pendu

If you mean "Game of Tarot", good luck. I mentioned a week or so ago how ridiculous it is that the book goes for $300 up. I'd happily pay for a pdf version, or a "publish on demand" version. It's so frustrating that one of the foundational texts on Tarot History is priced out of reach for most students of tarot.

VB, I'm going to start a new thread to ask some questions about your theory.