North Node Transits?

strangebrew

Hi :)

Does anyone have any thoughts on effects of the transiting North Node making close aspect (tight conjunction) to Natal Venus and Neptune (in 7th house)

I wonder if this is a time when something significant can happen regarding relationships?

Am also interested to know about transiting North Node aspecting natal North Node which is due to come up for me in July this year

Thanks :)
 

dreamtripp

A consuming need (north node) for love/wealth (venus) and glamour/illusions (neptune) in one-on-one contacts (7th house) You may find unexpected opportunities (north node) in these areas but even these opportunities will leave you hungering (north node) for more.
 

strangebrew

A consuming need (north node) for love/wealth (venus) and glamour/illusions (neptune) in one-on-one contacts (7th house) You may find unexpected opportunities (north node) in these areas but even these opportunities will leave you hungering (north node) for more.

Thank you...that sounds like my personality in general :).....i wonder though if there is some karma to play out with the north node transits?
 

Minderwiz

Hi :)

Does anyone have any thoughts on effects of the transiting North Node making close aspect (tight conjunction) to Natal Venus and Neptune (in 7th house)

I wonder if this is a time when something significant can happen regarding relationships?

Am also interested to know about transiting North Node aspecting natal North Node which is due to come up for me in July this year

Thanks :)

The North Node is a point. Except by accident, there is no planet there and thus it cannot cast an aspect. Like the Ascendant or MC, it can receive one though. So transits to your North Node may show up as events (or feelings if you go down the psychological route).

The North Node passing through Libra does not cast an aspect, so it can't transit by conjunction it's natal position. I haven't looked at all software programs by any means but the ones that I do have, don't give any facility to cast a 'Return Chart' for the Nodes. And to be honest I wouldn't expect them too. Nor does Rob Hand in his classic text 'Planets in Transit' deal with the Nodes, either as transiting 'items' or as receivers of a transit by a planet. He does deal with transits to Ascendant and MC. His view, and at the time he was a standard psychological Astrologer, appears to be that Transits involving the nodes are not important.

Now I know a lot of Astrologers place great value on the Nodes, often because they seem them linked to Karma or even just see them as 'benefic' (N. Node) or 'malefic' (S. Node) influences. You will find some sites that try to give interpretations of what you've asked about such as

http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/northnode-southnode-transiting-lunarnodes.html

But to be honest, I don't place much faith in them, for example, what actually is a 'Karmic transition period'? And more to the point how can you observe it.

One thing that you ought to remember is that the Mean Nodes are always Retrograde so any transit to Neptune and Venus has already occurred. You can always check an ephemeris to find the dates on which those 'transits' happened If you haven't got access to one I can do it for you).
 

Barleywine

It may be imprudent to say this, but I've been reading Barbara Watters' book on horary astrology, and she has a number of example charts in which planets (usually a malefic) are "in the degree of" the nodes (that is, not even in the same sign, just in an identically-numbered degree elsewhere in the chart). Invariably, she interpreted this as "fatality" in retrospect (being ethical, she didn't predict it in advance), and her case-study clients had in fact died under these indications. I don't know where she got this (Lilly, maybe?), since it doesn't seem like something a modern astrologer would come up with on her own. I've never seen it anywhere else, but my reading in traditional astrology, generally, and horary astrology, in particular, is still anemic.
 

Chanah

Check Ivy-Goldstein Jacobson's writings on horary. I think that may be where the idea hails from - not sure, though.
 

Barleywine

Check Ivy-Goldstein Jacobson's writings on horary. I think that may be where the idea hails from - not sure, though.

Thanks! You are correct, I have her horary book right here; just got it from a friend and haven't opened it yet. Here is the relevant quote:

"Any planet or angle in the same degree as the Nodes points to a catastrophe, casualty, fatality or tragedy in a horary or natal chart, the more far-reaching when a malefic is involved."

The example chart she gives with this statement had Jupiter in the 8th at 13 Aries and the Nodes at ~13 Pisces/Virgo, so it's clear that "in the same degree" did not necessarily mean in the same sign. Still, horary is an ancient art and I'm skeptical that she came up with this on her own in 1960.
 

Minderwiz

Thanks! You are correct, I have her horary book right here; just got it from a friend and haven't opened it yet. Here is the relevant quote:

"Any planet or angle in the same degree as the Nodes points to a catastrophe, casualty, fatality or tragedy in a horary or natal chart, the more far-reaching when a malefic is involved."

The example chart she gives with this statement had Jupiter in the 8th at 13 Aries and the Nodes at ~13 Pisces/Virgo, so it's clear that "in the same degree" did not necessarily mean in the same sign. Still, horary is an ancient art and I'm skeptical that she came up with this on her own in 1960.

The only reference I can find to this statement comes from Olivia Barclay, founder of the QHP course. She cites Watters and agrees with the statement that any planet in the degree of the nodes is unfortunate. In fact she attibutes the idea to Watters, listing it as a modern contribution to horary. Clearly she got the attribution wrong any way but there does not seem, as far as I can tell any traditional source for the claim. The problem with Barclay is that she then goes on to quote Lilly's attributions of dignity and debility to the Nodes, which contradicts Watters/Goldstein-Jacobson completely.

Lilly took the later medieval view that the North Node was a benefic and awarded 4 points to a partile conjunction with it, which according to the quote should be a catastrophic situation.

He awards -4 to a partile conjunction with the South Node, which is less than the partile conjunction with Mars or Saturn or being combust or retrograde or within 5 degtees of Caput Algol.

The greater importance given to the nodes seems to have begun in medieval times, being one of the relatively few innovations brought in by Arab or Persian Astrologers. There are a variety of views about them, some Astrologers took them as both being good if they were with the benefics or both being malefic if they were with malefics. Barbara Dunn, in a text which draws heavily on medieval sources as well as Lilly, agrees with Lilly that conjunction with the North Node strengthens any planet. As she now runs the QHP, started by Olivia Barclay, I'd tend to take her view as being the stronger here. I'm not particularly a fan of her book, other than as a source that can point to the relevant texts. It's basically 500 pages which are turgid prose. I've checked all her references to the nodes and nowhere does she mention the above view, even if only to dismiss it.

I think the Watters/Goldstein-Jacobson/Barclay claim is faulty or at least it's perculiar to them. I've not come across a writer before or since that makes this claim. I'll keep looking though as they may have come across a text somewhere. Given that Barclay only cites Watters, I'm not sure that the said missing text exists though.

Edited to add:

I just found a passage in John Frawley's Horary Textbook. He again takes the North Node as generally benefic and the South Node as generally malefic, or rather that the North Node will add to good things or ameliorate bad things and the South Node will do the opposite.

He goes on to say.

'Although the Nodes do not cast or receive aspects. you will often find a significator square the nodes (i.e. exactly half way between them) This seems to show a person torn between two courses of action, often with neither of them being appealing. The planet is not affected by being square the Nodes. The idea in some modern books of the degree of the Nodes in any sign as "a degree of fatality" is groundless'

I'm not sure I go along with his idea of the nodes not being able to receive aspects, though the Hellenistic idea of being seen or configured could still apply. I'll have to think about that one.

The quote is perhaps most valuable because it bears out Barclay's view that the idea was introduced in modern times by writers who were at the very beginning of the rediscovery of Horary and did not have anything like the texts that we have. I have Barclay's book but I regard it as of 'historical' significance only in terms of the practice of Horary.

Incidentally Frawley's comment about the half way point harks back to a Hellenistic concept of the 'bendings', where the Moon changes direction from North to South or vice versa. These two points together with the nodes themselves were seem as denoting high levels of activity.
 

Barleywine

The quote is perhaps most valuable because it bears out Barclay's view that the idea was introduced in modern times by writers who were at the very beginning of the rediscovery of Horary and did not have anything like the texts that we have.

Excellent research. Thank you!

On a humorous note, Kevin Burk, in his informative and entertaining "A Comprehensive Guide to Classical Interpretation," says the South Node was "associated with huge, heaping amounts of what one would expect to come out of the back end of a dragon." It might be argued that a good deal of the modern interpretation of both Nodes would fit comfortably into that characterization. The whole karmic, past-life paradigm doesn't do much for me. Rob Hand, in his previous incarnation, once said at a lecture: "The Nodes stand for connections, period." (I think he meant North Node makes them, South Node breaks them.) That's a bit less ephemeral, but still doesn't quite seem to nail it.
 

Minderwiz

Valens doesn't have much good to say for the nodes - something that looks like it's derived from the old dislike of eclipses. Like Frawley he seems only to bother with conjunctions or planets at the bendings.

Most of what he says seems to be related to methods of calculating the length of life, so I better be careful not to extrapolate that to other topics. I did come across a reference to the transiting node, which under certain conditions could be consulted to see where the dragon droppings would fall.