"4 agreements" and the Court Cards

hunter

Have any of you read "The Four Agreements"? After I read it, I started seeing the domestication process played out in the court cards.

The pages as unaffected by the belief system. Negatively a bit self absorbed sometimes, but in tune with their needs, not full of shame, and not interested in telling others what to do.

I see the knights as zealots for a belief system. Totally unaware of any negatives of the system and thinking everyone should convert. Expecting perfection to the system by others but especially for themselves. They are their own worst enemy, setting impossible standards for themselves.

Queens are fully submitted to the system, but understand the negatives. They are afraid to break free. They mistake the feeling in the pit of their stomach as something that should be heeded and feel guilty if they try to break free. They don't know the feeling is just fear with no negative connotation, just fear. Despite seeing the flaws in the system, guilt holds them in it, as well as realistic fears of disaster from rocking the boat.

Kings think they are above the system. They have a sense of entitlement and concern for what others are doing that is absent from the page. Sometimes they are leaving behind one belief system to just take on another. Sometimes they expect others to conform to a belief system that they don't hold themselves to.

Sometimes I slap a 4 agreements card on each court card, for clarification. The cards all expand on the following "agreements".

Be impeccable with your word
Don't take anything personally
Don't make assumptions
Always do your best

In my readings for myself, and others, I only focus on the sitter and self responsibility. No other person can be named or identified other than sometimes as infant. EVERYTHING is about the sitter or a general or recurring environment issue. The court cards threw me for a loop because their main meanings are to identify others, and there are no others in my readings.

I'm still experimenting with this court system, but so far it's working great and loved by all but one sitter. I'm hesitant to permanently adopt a system that is so contradictory of the traditional queen meanings, but I honestly think they match the pictures better.

Oh...and I use the suit to identify the type of beliefs. Pentacles beliefs about money and things of value and the body. Cups beliefs about emotions, love, dependencies ect.

The belief systems can be those of larger society, or the nuclear family, or religion or a corporation or any belief system affecting the sitter.

Are there any flaws in this system? Any warnings I should heed? Any expanding ideas? All opinions are welcome :)
 

AJ

Interesting viewpoint.
Be careful you don't place yourself in the Knight mode.
 

nisaba

hunter said:
In my readings for myself, and others, I only focus on the sitter and self responsibility. No other person can be named or identified other than sometimes as infant. EVERYTHING is about the sitter or a general or recurring environment issue. The court cards threw me for a loop because their main meanings are to identify others, and there are no others in my readings.
There are no "others" in the readings of many of us - the sitter is the person you're reading for. Court cards have a LOT more than just identification about them - court cards come up in my spreads reasonably readily, and I rarely read them as actual people, but usually that's not what they're trying to say.
 

SunChariot

I've read it and I also have the deck of it. There is a Four Agreements deck that stems from the book too. It is an oracle though not a Tarot. Also by the same author the Mastery of Love book also has an Oracle deck of the same name that is based on the book.

I have both books and both decks. They are really excellent. If you don't yet have the Four Agreements deck I bet you'd love it.

Babs
 

hunter

SunChariot said:
I've read it and I also have the deck of it. There is a Four Agreements deck that stems from the book too. It is an oracle though not a Tarot. Also by the same author the Mastery of Love book also has an Oracle deck of the same name that is based on the book.

I have both books and both decks. They are really excellent. If you don't yet have the Four Agreements deck I bet you'd love it.

Babs

Yes, I have the 4 agreements deck and sometimes place a card on each court card for clarification. I wish the cards were not two sided, but I just pick the card from where the deck cuts. I don't own the book but borrowed it and the companion book from the library. I needed to read the book to enrich my use of the cards, but don't think I need to own it.

I do not have the Mastery of Love deck or book. They look interesting. I'm hoping to maybe buy the deck at Borders when I get a good coupon and borrow the book from the library.

Babs have you found that reading the book or using the cards has changed how you read the tarot at all?
 

hunter

AJ said:
Interesting viewpoint.
Be careful you don't place yourself in the Knight mode.

I sometimes see myself in many of the courts, including sometimes the knights. The domestication process is so deep that when we least expect it, it can rear it's ugly head in all of it's different stages.

I can be hard on myself and others, setting too high of standards. The knight is a nice reminder to put my sword away. Most of the time there is no need for perfection :) Especially rules of perfection that often are not real anyway. The appearance of a knight is a reminder to spread some love.
 

Sulis

I'm completely confused by what you mean by 'the belief system' and so can't get my head around how you're trying to view the court cards at all.

Court cards don't just signify 'others', they show personality types, ways of behaving and also describe situations and events.
You seem to be forcing them into a very narrow set of boundaries that I just can't agree with.

So, what do you mean by 'the belief system' and how does this play out in readings? I know that if I went to a tarot reader and he or she started telling me what 'I believe', I'd run a mile and very quickly.
And what do you mean by 'the domestication process'?

On the one hand you state in your posts that you're not going along with 'traditional meanings', (fine, except those meanings have come from many, many years of tarot usage), yet in other posts you seem to be making it up as you go along...
For example you say that 'The appearance of a knight is a reminder to spread some love' - How do you get that interpretation from any of the knights other than the Knight of Cups?

Sorry, I just don't get it.
 

SunChariot

hunter said:
Yes, I have the 4 agreements deck and sometimes place a card on each court card for clarification. I wish the cards were not two sided, but I just pick the card from where the deck cuts. I don't own the book but borrowed it and the companion book from the library. I needed to read the book to enrich my use of the cards, but don't think I need to own it.

I do not have the Mastery of Love deck or book. They look interesting. I'm hoping to maybe buy the deck at Borders when I get a good coupon and borrow the book from the library.

Babs have you found that reading the book or using the cards has changed how you read the tarot at all?

I don't find it's changed the way I read, as to the methods I use. But it has changed how I think inside. And the way you think affects what you see in the cards. If you know what I mean. :grin:

Babs
 

gregory

hunter said:
<snip>
Queens are fully submitted to the system, but understand the negatives. They are afraid to break free. They mistake the feeling in the pit of their stomach as something that should be heeded and feel guilty if they try to break free. They don't know the feeling is just fear with no negative connotation, just fear. Despite seeing the flaws in the system, guilt holds them in it, as well as realistic fears of disaster from rocking the boat.

Kings think they are above the system. They have a sense of entitlement and concern for what others are doing that is absent from the page. Sometimes they are leaving behind one belief system to just take on another. Sometimes they expect others to conform to a belief system that they don't hold themselves to.
<snip>

Are there any flaws in this system? Any warnings I should heed? Any expanding ideas? All opinions are welcome :)
Leaving aside that I would find it as rigid as any other "system" and more so than many, I also find your "take" on Kings and Queens INCREDIBLY "traditionally" sexist here.
 

rwcarter

gregory said:
I also find your "take" on Kings and Queens INCREDIBLY "traditionally" sexist here.
I thought he was talking about the energy associated with the Kings and Queens, with the understanding that a man could exhibit the Queen energy and a woman could exhibit the King energy. Maybe I read it wrong.