"Aha moment" concerning 9 of Swords as what someone truly WANTS

Thirteen

One day at a time

In this situation, I think the guy wants to be that one who could make the troubles vanish, IF it's this scenario and NOT the scenario of wanting to be forgiven or redeemed.
I agree he wants the make the trouble vanish. Imagine looking into a house that needs all kinds of repairs and filled to over flowing with junk. That's the 9/Swords. Cleaning it out and fixing it looks like an insurmountable task. You don't want to be forgiven for all this mess. You just want it solved...and you want it solved all at once. It makes you wish you were someone powerful who could command hundreds of people (King/Cups). They'll show up and, at your direction, the junk would be cleaned out, the place repaired and painted. Within a day, it would all be good as new.

That's what the person wants. And it makes perfect sense. But they have to see, as we all do in such cases, that it's rare that we get such power and take care of everything all at once. The journey of a 1000 steps begins with one. Same with a house broken and full of junk. It looks insurmountable or like it's going to take a great deal of power to fix...but actually, you can do it. Bit by bit, you can clear it out. And then, issue by issue, you can repair it. We tend, when buried under so many issues, to feel like it's all or nothing. But if we're willing to, as they say in AA, take it one day at a time, not try to solve it all at once, then we can get out from under it. We can have what we want.
 

Amanda

Wanting to be redeemed is very similar to just wanting relief. There probably is an element of "What did I do to deserve this?" with this card or "Why?! Why?! Why?!" I know when I was having some kind of stress-induced break-down and not sleeping for a few months, it was like my mind was stuck in a loop. I kept replaying things, stressful things, over and over in my mind -- past things that couldn't be undone; I kept playing new scenarios over and over in my mind to try to resolve it for myself, and I was essentially just driving myself crazy with it... because it was the past, and it was done.

Then I would switch to present issues, and was essentially driving myself crazy with meticulous, intricate details of how to do something "best" and to avoid past scenarios again. I would stay up all night doing this, laying awake in bed... it was very crazy behavior I did not seem to have control over, which was all induced by stress. I'm pretty sure I went past my breaking-point for stress. When the thing that was causing such stress ended, I was essentially walking around this world like a zombie for about a year (and I was starting to get sleep again, but my mind was obviously wore out) and it was one day that year later that I realized all this, because I had allowed the stress to do so much damage to my mind.

But at the time, you know what I wanted? I just wanted it all to stop. I couldn't get my mind to shut off and it just wouldn't stop. I wanted all the problems in my mind to go away and I wanted rest. All the little problems I couldn't fix, or was too concerned with -- they didn't matter and it was literally like the stress finally snapped something in me and sent my mind into such an over-drive I couldn't even control it anymore. Probably one of the worst cases of 9 of Swords EVER! Looking back on it, in all honesty, if I had truly understood what was going on and paid more attention to the warning signs of my own behavior, I would have known that I probably should have sought professional help; I just thought it was stress and it wasn't that big of a deal. It was okay during my waking hours, because I was applying my problem-solving to my work, but each night I kept waiting for it to get better, but I had already went past my breaking point and didn't even realize that I had.

I remembered taking a class for school about stress and how it can actually be deadly serious. It talked about breaking points... very, very rough lesson for me in learning my limits, but thankfully some knowledge came to me about this since I didn't realize I probably needed professional help to get my mind settled again. I can better recognize when I'm getting stressed out now --too stressed-- and like Thirteen says, take things one day at a time. Take things one problem at a time.
 

Thirteen

Failure of Responsibility?

I remembered taking a class for school about stress and how it can actually be deadly serious. It talked about breaking points... very, very rough lesson for me in learning my limits, but thankfully some knowledge came to me about this since I didn't realize I probably needed professional help to get my mind settled again. I can better recognize when I'm getting stressed out now --too stressed-- and like Thirteen says, take things one day at a time. Take things one problem at a time.
Wow! That was an awesome story, Amanda! Thank you for sharing that. It really rings like a gong for the 9/Swords and you're *SO* right. The 9/Swords is all about not knowing one's own limits or how to get help in circumstances that seem overwhelming: like a huge wave as you said, of details, problems, issues.

And I think it also points out how often we feel it's all up to us. That we have to do it all on our own. So the stress isn't just in the amount of things we feel we have to fix, or in the way we see it (which can be overblown), but in how we view ourselves.

Maybe that's what Tiggy-cat was twigging to with the guilt. The fear, stress, and self-blame that comes with the mistaken--and equally stressful belief that we should be able to handle it all on our own. If this person is a man, amp that stress up. Because we raise boys to "man-up" and take charge. And if a man can't meet his responsibilities, he's under even more stress: fear of what others will think of him, and his own low opinion of himself for not being able to do his gender appointed job.
 

Tiggy-cat

Wanting to be redeemed is very similar to just wanting relief. There probably is an element of "What did I do to deserve this?" with this card or "Why?! Why?! Why?!" I know when I was having some kind of stress-induced break-down and not sleeping for a few months, it was like my mind was stuck in a loop. I kept replaying things, stressful things, over and over in my mind -- past things that couldn't be undone; I kept playing new scenarios over and over in my mind to try to resolve it for myself, and I was essentially just driving myself crazy with it... because it was the past, and it was done.

Then I would switch to present issues, and was essentially driving myself crazy with meticulous, intricate details of how to do something "best" and to avoid past scenarios again. I would stay up all night doing this, laying awake in bed... it was very crazy behavior I did not seem to have control over, which was all induced by stress. I'm pretty sure I went past my breaking-point for stress. When the thing that was causing such stress ended, I was essentially walking around this world like a zombie for about a year (and I was starting to get sleep again, but my mind was obviously wore out) and it was one day that year later that I realized all this, because I had allowed the stress to do so much damage to my mind.

But at the time, you know what I wanted? I just wanted it all to stop. I couldn't get my mind to shut off and it just wouldn't stop. I wanted all the problems in my mind to go away and I wanted rest. All the little problems I couldn't fix, or was too concerned with -- they didn't matter and it was literally like the stress finally snapped something in me and sent my mind into such an over-drive I couldn't even control it anymore. Probably one of the worst cases of 9 of Swords EVER! Looking back on it, in all honesty, if I had truly understood what was going on and paid more attention to the warning signs of my own behavior, I would have known that I probably should have sought professional help; I just thought it was stress and it wasn't that big of a deal. It was okay during my waking hours, because I was applying my problem-solving to my work, but each night I kept waiting for it to get better, but I had already went past my breaking point and didn't even realize that I had.

I remembered taking a class for school about stress and how it can actually be deadly serious. It talked about breaking points... very, very rough lesson for me in learning my limits, but thankfully some knowledge came to me about this since I didn't realize I probably needed professional help to get my mind settled again. I can better recognize when I'm getting stressed out now --too stressed-- and like Thirteen says, take things one day at a time. Take things one problem at a time.

Wow Amanda, that is absolutely the 9oS there! What an awful place t be!

The thing that has continued to puzzle me though is not so much what the card means on its own, but as the answer to what someone most WANTS (to do in relation to someone else). ie, be friends, elope, walk away and never look back, take them to bed for mind blowing sex, etc.


So the stress isn't just in the amount of things we feel we have to fix, or in the way we see it (which can be overblown), but in how we view ourselves.

Maybe that's what Tiggy-cat was twigging to with the guilt. The fear, stress, and self-blame that comes with the mistaken--and equally stressful belief that we should be able to handle it all on our own.

That's close to what I meant, yes. I meant if there's a situation where one person feels they really handled something very badly and caused pain or harm to someone they really care about, they look back on it and say "jeez, I really am a complete and utter ASS. What was I thinking??? " and take it on themselves to beat themselves up for it, obsess about what they should have done differently, make themselves learn from it and vow to themselves that they will never make that same mistake again and will be a better person from here on out, etc... so as to be a better person or more "worthy" of the person they feel they wronged. Even if the person has already forgiven them, they may feel they've let themselves down by letting the other person down so they *want* to make up for it in every way and "do their duty" by suffering for it.
 

Thirteen

Most wants to have the person thinking about him?

That's close to what I meant, yes. I meant if there's a situation where one person feels they really handled something very badly and caused pain or harm to someone they really care about, they look back on it and say "jeez, I really am a complete and utter ASS. What was I thinking??? "
But wouldn't that be the five cups? That's the regret card. And You said that what's confusing you is what this person most wants to do with another person. And "gain forgiveness" doesn't sound any closer to "elope" or "have sex" than our answers ("escape his stress"). It especially doesn't quite strike me as right for a card where someone can't sleep for all the thoughts on their mind.

So maybe you're looking at it from the wrong side. Maybe he's not the one in the bed with the nightmares. Maybe what he most wants is to keep that other person up at night. Restless and sleepless and thinking only of him. Or, if you want to get down and dirty, maybe he wants to do something with her that will keep her up for nights afterwards thinking, "I can't believe I did that!" with some shame and yet also desiring to do it again. })

Or maybe he wants to be the King/Cups who helps this person to sleep. Who transforms their nightmares into pleasant dreams. Maybe what he most wants isn't "to do to"anything with this person, but "do for" them.
 

Amanda

Wow Amanda, that is absolutely the 9oS there! What an awful place t be!

The thing that has continued to puzzle me though is not so much what the card means on its own, but as the answer to what someone most WANTS (to do in relation to someone else). ie, be friends, elope, walk away and never look back, take them to bed for mind blowing sex, etc.

Probably the worst personal experience of my life, but I learned something from it.
I used to get this card a lot for Advice as well. That always threw me, until it hit me one day, "Ask yourself why.." in regards to some situation -- the advice seemed to be to ask oneself why, ask oneself the hard and tough questions to get through a mess instead of just freaking out about it.

In terms of what someone wants in relation to someone else, I think this card still takes on a personal focus/perspective.

That's close to what I meant, yes. I meant if there's a situation where one person feels they really handled something very badly and caused pain or harm to someone they really care about, they look back on it and say "jeez, I really am a complete and utter ASS. What was I thinking??? " and take it on themselves to beat themselves up for it, obsess about what they should have done differently, make themselves learn from it and vow to themselves that they will never make that same mistake again and will be a better person from here on out, etc... so as to be a better person or more "worthy" of the person they feel they wronged. Even if the person has already forgiven them, they may feel they've let themselves down by letting the other person down so they *want* to make up for it in every way and "do their duty" by suffering for it.

I agree with you until you get to the part about doing one's duty. I think even if another person has forgiven, the 9 of Swords person is still holding themselves accountable; they don't want whatever blemish is there on their history for personal reasons. I don't think they intend to suffer, but because they hold themselves so highly accountable, they just do.. because whatever they did is unacceptable to them, even if the other person has forgiven.. they're personal standards may just be way too high and having those high personal standards could be the start of the slippery slope that sends their logic haywire... a person forgiving them could even make it worse, perhaps, because it wouldn't make sense to them for someone to forgive them for something they won't forgive themselves for. You see? It's irrational, so I think what they want is for the negative to have never happened, but it likely started with having too high of standards for themselves in the first place.

So, really -- I guess I'm kind of agreeing with you -- they want some kind of personal redemption perhaps, but they won't get it even if the other person forgives them. They have to work it out for themselves logically, and they might need to start by not holding themselves to such high, irrational standards.

Just my thoughts anyway!
 

Tiggy-cat

Maybe what he most wants is to keep that other person up at night. Restless and sleepless and thinking only of him. Or, if you want to get down and dirty, maybe he wants to do something with her that will keep her up for nights afterwards thinking, "I can't believe I did that!" with some shame and yet also desiring to do it again. })

Or maybe he wants to be the King/Cups who helps this person to sleep. Who transforms their nightmares into pleasant dreams. Maybe what he most wants isn't "to do to"anything with this person, but "do for" them.

Yes, definite possibilities there! I like the sound of that first idea, and I think that BEING that KoC for the person is possible, and what you mentioned earlier by wanting [someone who could] or wanting [to BE someone who could] just make that 9oS stress vanish, and solve the problems in a snap, with the power of a King.
 

headincloud

Hi haven't read all the previous posts so this may have been suggested but my thought is this woman could be with child and doesn't wish to go through with the pregnancy hence the depression of the 9 and the secrecy of the king?
 

Tiggy-cat

I think even if another person has forgiven, the 9 of Swords person is still holding themselves accountable; they don't want whatever blemish is there on their history for personal reasons. I don't think they intend to suffer, but because they hold themselves so highly accountable, they just do.. because whatever they did is unacceptable to them, even if the other person has forgiven.. they're personal standards may just be way too high and having those high personal standards could be the start of the slippery slope that sends their logic haywire... a person forgiving them could even make it worse, perhaps, because it wouldn't make sense to them for someone to forgive them for something they won't forgive themselves for. You see? It's irrational, so I think what they want is for the negative to have never happened, but it likely started with having too high of standards for themselves in the first place.

So, really -- I guess I'm kind of agreeing with you -- they want some kind of personal redemption perhaps, but they won't get it even if the other person forgives them.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Not to say it's definitely true here but that was my sudden theory. Someone who just can't forgive themselves.
 

Tiggy-cat

Hi haven't read all the previous posts so this may have been suggested but my thought is this woman could be with child and doesn't wish to go through with the pregnancy hence the depression of the 9 and the secrecy of the king?

Wow, that's an interesting take. I do know that it doesn't apply here but certainly something to keep in mind with this card combo I think.