Planet in transit square its natal position

Ronia

This is a guess from me.

Minderwiz, you once told me no planet would debilitate itself by square by transit. However, Mars squared himself from 8th to 6th (transit/natal) and my son fell and has concusion, to say it all mildly, I don't want to get into details, I've had enough last days. My point is that may be it was Mars. I also have active square Pluto (12th) to natal Pluto (8th) which of course I'm not happy with (because of the houses), on top of Uranus (2nd) opposite natal Pluto (8th). This whole configuration will be once again activated when transiting Mars in the 8th conjunct natal Pluto at 10 degrees Libra. But the accident happened at Mars square Mars, two degrees separating... I can't help but wonder if a planet could still produce a negative event while squaring itself by transit? n

Does anyone have any experience? Like real life events, the rest I'm well aware of (the spiritual side)?

P.S. My son shares my Mars' natal position (sign and degree but in his 12th), so whatever happens to my Mars, happens to his as well.

Minderwiz

I've not got your son's chart so I can't really comment on your last point in terms of what's going on with him directly. The Mars square Mars is a separating aspect at the time of the accident, still withing the bounds of possibility though. Mars had already begun it's application to that Pluto conjunction at the time of the accident, so (as you use Pluto) you had both the Mars/Mars and Mars/Pluto activated. One possibility is the combination of the two - but obviously I could be wrong about the Mars/Mars square.

From your point of view, the obvious question is why it showed up as an accident to your son, rather that yourself. I don't see any links to your son in the houses you quote (using Placidus) but if I use WSH, Mars rules the eleventh and as we touched on in another thread, the eleventh was taken as dealing with children, as well as the fifth. I'll have a root around in your chart and see if there's anything extra I can add.

PS Did this accident happen when transiting Mars was in sextile to your natal Saturn?

Ronia

Yes, Mars was sextile my natal Saturn, separating already but still in orb, just like with natal Mars. Thanks Minderwiz, I've put a veto on my son's chart and don't look at it either, pointed at his Mars's position only to explain that he has the Mars/Mars square too. I did expect something to happen with all these aspects. I do see a link but it's with an outer. I've said before here something that I believe in based on my 2nd transits. I've found out it's much more than material possesions. In fact, most of the time it plays as affecting whatever I *treasure*. Material and non material. I know this is completely out of any system or astrological school I know but fact is that is how it plays out in my life. To me it has to do with the fact that the ruler is Neptune but that's again a different story with an outer planet.

Anyways, more is to come, so hope remains we'll manage to go thorugh it. I haven't excluded myself but my concerns are for him. I also wondered, since he was born at an exact Mars/Mars conjunction in my chart, may be, aside from Mercury, Mars also signifies him in a way... But that's just wondering.

Minderwiz

I fully understand your 'veto' on your son's chart. You did say though that Mars was in his twelfth house - is that position in the rising sign (same sign as the Ascendant)?

On your own chart, you do have a Primary Direction coming up between the Sun and the Antisicion/Contrantiscion of Venus. It's not a major one and based on your birth time as given, it would be next week. But, PDs are only ballpark dates, they need a transit or something else to activate them. However, Sun is Lord 8 in your WSH chart and Venus rules the WSH fifth house of Children and Dorotheus' Lot of Children. So transits around now could (and I stress could, not will) show up affecting your son.

Also you have Dorotheus' Lot of Sons, at 4 degrees Leo, so Mars was aspecting that too - plus this is a Mars (Aries) L2 period and Cancer L3/L4 (natal Mars is in Cancer and so active) around the time of the accident (though as I haven't a date for the accident, that's obviously conjecture.

There are of course alternative Lot of Children calculations, Maternus and Valens have different ones but the odd thing is that all of them have a Mars influence right now. So whether or not Mars is afflicting itself, it certainly seems to have a signification for your son at the moment. Not a serious one as in major injury but a signification none the less.

Finally, bear in mind that not all Mars' signification is concerned with accidents - he might actually achieve something special through real effort over the period, so try not to be too anxious about it.

Ronia

Minderwiz said:
I fully understand your 'veto' on your son's chart. You did say though that Mars was in his twelfth house - is that position in the rising sign (same sign as the Ascendant)?

It is, yes.

Minderwiz said:
On your own chart, you do have a Primary Direction coming up between the Sun and the Antisicion/Contrantiscion of Venus. It's not a major one and based on your birth time as given, it would be next week. But, PDs are only ballpark dates, they need a transit or something else to activate them. However, Sun is Lord 8 in your WSH chart and Venus rules the WSH fifth house of Children and Dorotheus' Lot of Children. So transits around now could (and I stress could, not will) show up affecting your son.

Thank you, since I don't know/use the Anticision, I can't add much but clearly something is affecting my son. My wondering was about the Mars/Mars square and the possibility of a planet afflicting itself by transit.

Minderwiz said:
Also you have Dorotheus' Lot of Sons, at 4 degrees Leo, so Mars was aspecting that too - plus this is a Mars (Aries) L2 period and Cancer L3/L4 (natal Mars is in Cancer and so active) around the time of the accident (though as I haven't a date for the accident, that's obviously conjecture.

At this time Mars was about 4 degrees, so this is valid. As about the time periods, you know I wrote before: looking back things may look to fit but for prediction, IMHO, they need something to work with them strongly - transit, SR, or LR, or progressions and directions (none of which worked with my Mercury and Jupiter though). Otherwise each time the period is such something similar should happen (Thank God it's not working like that!!!)

Minderwiz said:
There are of course alternative Lot of Children calculations, Maternus and Valens have different ones but the odd thing is that all of them have a Mars influence right now. So whether or not Mars is afflicting itself, it certainly seems to have a signification for your son at the moment. Not a serious one as in major injury but a signification none the less.

It was serious. I mean, I'm not sleepless for nothing here. It was serious and still is, and will be for a month from now during half of which time my son will be away from me. Which all makes me look at my chart with even greater attention because more is coming to these same houses.

Minderwiz said:
Finally, bear in mind that not all Mars' signification is concerned with accidents - he might actually achieve something special through real effort over the period, so try not to be too anxious about it.

During this period of a month and possibly more he will be restricted in his doings/achievements. I agree not all the time Mars produces accidents but since the time was at a Mars/Mars square, and because I think it was a bit too far from natal Pluto for a conjunction (for me), I couldn't ignore the fact that Mars, as in the past, continues to be a not so nice to me planet except when a major aspect from another planet alters his behaviour.

Minderwiz

Ronia said:
It is, yes.

Then it's in his first Whole Sign House, signifying his physical body (amongst other things) and any effect could well show up in relation to his body

Ronia said:
Thank you, since I don't know/use the Anticision, I can't add much but clearly something is affecting my son. My wondering was about the Mars/Mars square and the possibility of a planet afflicting itself by transit.

Without going into the nature of antiscia, my main point is that it involves Lord 8 and your fifth house ruler, so there's some 'threat' to your child. It will only show up if there's supporting activity at the level of SRs or Transits (preferably both). There are transits which affect 'child' related parts of your chart. Mars is involved in some of those and itself has some 'child' related role as ruler of your eleventh. It's also the out of sect malefic, for you.

Ronia said:
At this time Mars was about 4 degrees, so this is valid. As about the time periods, you know I wrote before: looking back things may look to fit but for prediction, IMHO, they need something to work with them strongly - transit, SR, or LR, or progressions and directions (none of which worked with my Mercury and Jupiter though). Otherwise each time the period is such something similar should happen (Thank God it's not working like that!!!)

Well the PD is knowable before hand - you can have a list of all your PDs for the rest of your life if you want

. Looking for Transits about the time of a PD which are related to the area - in this case those parts of your life primarily ruled by Venus. I agree that looking at injury to your son would not have been my prime focus, Venus rules your natal tenth (again using WSH) so career would be the first thing I would look at. Your Lot of Fortune also lies in Libra, so Venus has connections to your body and your physical and financial well being - it's interesting that you describe your son as your 'treasure' because he would link into your well being on that basis. I must admit I wouldn't have looked for that but you might well have done. But I would consider Mars here as Mars' ingress into Libra by Transit, would bring about a Mars/Venus link.

Venus' other rulership is your fifth (again using WSH) and therefore children (the primary signification of the fifth). The Mars ingress into Libra might well focus attention onto chid related points and Mars does link to children through its rulership of the eleventh and it is in the same sign as the Maternus/Valens Lots of Children. A check would show the forthcoming sextile to the Dorotheus Lot.

Ronia said:
It was serious. I mean, I'm not sleepless for nothing here. It was serious and still is, and will be for a month from now during half of which time my son will be away from me. Which all makes me look at my chart with even greater attention because more is coming to these same houses.

I didn't mean to downgrade the event - I was trying to be diplomatic and not use the phrase 'life threatening' even if I was trying to say that it shouldn't be 'life threatening'. Lord 8 is never to be sneezed at

.

Yes there are other things coming up. The transit of natal Pluto I'm sure will get your main attention but there's also the Mars transit of your natal LoF, natal Mercury and transit by opposition to your natal Jupiter.

When Mars was at 4 degrees Libra you were in a Capricorn/Aquarius/Cancer/Scorpio period in releasing from the LoF. Indeed as Mars reached 4 degrees you entered that L4 Scorpio period, activating your eleventh house. The L3 Cancer period had already activated Mars, so any transits of Mars would have significance. There will be a significant change on Monday as the L2 period will leap to Leo, from Aquarius (Loosing of the Bound).

Take care and all the best to you both.

Ronia

Minderwiz said:
Take care and all the best to you both.

Thank you. Happy holidays.