Changing Tendencies in Birth Chart, is it Possible?

Minderwiz

This is a very interesting discussion. I think there are two key issues here. The first is the nature of astrological prediction and the second is the efficacy of rectification in terms of producing an accurate birth time.

Taking them in order: Astrological prediction has been around for three thousand years, starting in Mesopotamia. The use of omens, such as comets, the ease of the sighting of a New Moon, the colour cast of planets, led to predictions about subsequent events. But omens are not causes; they are signs or indicators that an event will probably occur. This approach fed into the horoscopic Astrology that has been with us for two thousand years. Horoscopic Astrology introduced a second view of prediction. That planetary configurations are not just a sign that something will happen but a primary cause of something happening - the observed planetary configurations determine the outcome which is 'inevitable'. Which you go for depends on your philosophical outlook. Many of the Stoic Astrologers in the early period took Astrology as a cause and that events were determined by the planetary configurations in your chart. The best you could do is to learn to accept yourself as you are and live with what fate has dealt you.

These two approaches can be found in modern Psychological Astrology, recognising and accepting yourself for what you are is the first step on the road to living your life. Alternatively it can be seen as the basis for attempting to change learned behaviour to produce better outcomes. The question here is whether we can change those outcomes by our own actions. Even if we take Astrology as 'signifying probable events, rather than determining those events, (whether psychological events or 'real' events), change can be difficult, as there's not just Astrology at work but genetic and social factors. But marginal or incremental change may well be possible but life can and does close down certain options by making their achievement highly improbable.

So you might well be able to make certain changes to your behaviour patterns but you can't totally reinvent yourself and become a totally different person. There's always something of the old 'you' left, even if it's suppressed. The argument comes down to the freedom of movement that you have when negotiating your way through life. You may achieve some change, you may fail to achieve some other changes, and of the changes you do achieve, some may be temporary, others may last the rest of your life. Whether events are determined or not, we still have to live with our basic selves. That basic us, is not determined by our chart, in the sense that if we change the chart we change ourselves. Rather an erroneous chart will fail to indicate certain tendencies or events. So if your chart suddenly changes, as the result of new information, you don't change, though you may learn something new about yourself and decide that would like to change it, or even build on it. It's your attitude to life that counts.

On the issue of Rectification; the first thing you need to realise is that the result may be a more useful chart, but it is not necessarily a more accurate birth time. The aim of rectification is to enable you to have a better view of who you are and make any necessary accomodations. You will notice that the program requires you to give dates for certain events in your life and attempts to allow for the possibility that those events still lie in the future. That's because the process attempts to use those events to fit the chart to your life. However, if you're fairly young many of those events won't have happened and so the chart is fitted to a smaller set of events. It might be very accurate in showing the recent past and the present but it might break down in the future. Rectification isn't a one off event, you might end up having several rectifications as new events don't quite fit. The aim is to be as near to as many of the major events as possible over the period of your life. That means that at certain times there will still be differences between forecast and actual events. Rectification is not a panacea.

I too have a birth time supplied by my mother. I've rectified it to a time some twelve minutes earlier and that seems to fit quite well. But I know it's not the actual time I was born, though perhaps a better estimate than my mother's. Birth is anyway a longer process than we give it credit for.

Work on those changes that you feel you need to make but remember that whilst some people can turn their lives around, most people can't. You might well manage enough change for a long enough period to make life more enjoyable or at least more bearable.
 

dadsnook2000

Your natal chart is static, and yet, it is not !

Your natal chart is static, and yet, it is not ! The natal chart is a fixed picture of a moment in the sky around us. Think of that, please. Fixed. Moment. That picture continues to change. The natal chart portrays, for you, the starting point or reference point within many ongoing cycles. Those are your cycles. They indicate the nature of change that is coming and which will or may affect you to some degree in some area of your life.

Some of these cycles are easy to anticipate by just looking at the natal chart.
** On a daily basis we see that the Moon will move through the charts signs, crossing them every two and a half days. We can look for an emotional and reactive period when a house has a natal planet in it. Sure, this may not be very evident in the first days of your life. But what about your adult life?
** On a life-long basis, using the Moon within a secondary progression cycle (this is symbolic time but is certainly as valid as 'real' time), we can anticipate the Moon passing through each sign every two and a half years, reacting with natal planets found there. The house position will point to natural areas of expression.
** We can do the same for the Sun on a yearly basis or on a progression basis.
** What is not so easy to see is the movement of single planets over time through the zodiac as seen from earth. Instead, we might choose to use solar-arc directions in which all planets and angles are shifted relative to the Sun rate of advance. The directed planets then recombine with the natal planets and yield fascinating indications of the natal planets interacting in ways not expected.
** Of course, we can anticipate the movements of Jupiter, Saturn and the outer planets, taking note of long trends of symbolic development.
** And, finally, we might think of any two natal planets having an aspectual relationship and we can track their combined cycle relative to each other. This is more sophisticated.

What it all boils down to is that we are born into a changing world. Our experience brings change to us and we bring change to how we choose to react to situations that we have encountered before. We grow. We change. The question for the astrologer is, "How will you measure change? How will you meet change? How will you choose to grow? What will you hold onto?" Dave
 

CosmicBeing

Well I guess its not that serious. There are many guru's and stuff out there to help my situation/tendencies. I just think that my tendencies are actually challenges that have held me back. But like you say, who knows if changing them will eventually get me to a predetermined destiny. I'm believing that "realization" plays a role. My tendencies are ones toward a gemini moon and the aspect of having a million and one projects going at one time. All my life I thought I was ADHD, then to find it in my birth chart because I had the time wrong was mind blowing. In essence it is a natural tendency for my chart. I have been struggling with it and have even taken medication for it, and even suffered from low self esteem and self loathing. SO...now do I embrace it or try to change it? My horoscope this week states that the occult could cause me harm? Would I be harming myself if I try to change it, or harming myself if I try to embrace it? I feel like not to many people understand when your mind is this busy, but at some point in your life you want to control it, and narrow it down to a niche. From this chart I don't be believe that is going to happen for me. Not in terms of self actualization anyway. I think self-actualization for me has come to self-realization that this tendency is something that is a gift or a curse. Wanting stability vs being bored to a detriment with stability (depression) and anxiety from lack of stability vs motivation. It's all too complicated, and I need a happy medium at this age. I am glad through that I found it. But I honestly believe that I put people off by the way that I am.

Well I know someone with ADHD...well he says he has ADHD, but honestly he comes off more with ADD (without the hypertension.) I'm not a doctor...but anyway. His depression is more present to me than his inattention. The best way he seemed to learned to deal with it was have a very strict schedule.

The most that you can do.... is just work on whatever issues you feel need to be work on. There are many great books out there for ADHD and ADHD within relationships. I think seeing a therapist once a month for the depression that can come with ADHD is great... it's a chance for someone to hear your concerns and for you to hear them out loud.

Pertaining to my friend I am not sure how much it affects his self-esteem and if he does self-loathing. Because to me he doesn't act like someone with self-esteem nor does he talk about it. He seems to pretty much do whatever he wants and doesn't mind what other people think of him...which seems healthy to me.

You can be the kindest, smartest, best person in the world and still have people that don't like you/are put off by you. As long as you surround yourself with people that make you feel emotionally good and you always try to see their point of view as well as respect their boundaries...vice versa.

Have you ever had an astrological reading session with someone?

What has been a consistent thing people have told you? I definitely have been told by many people the same thing about myself. So must be a level of truth present lol
 

foolMoon

In modern / esoteric / evolutionary astrology it is perfectly possible, as human soul is to evolve and equipped with free will.

According to the traditional astrology, it is different story. They seem to have believed that once it is in the chart, the native is succumbed to fate. It is not changeable.
 

Minderwiz

Your natal chart is static, and yet, it is not ! The natal chart is a fixed picture of a moment in the sky around us. Think of that, please. Fixed. Moment. That picture continues to change. The natal chart portrays, for you, the starting point or reference point within many ongoing cycles. Those are your cycles. They indicate the nature of change that is coming and which will or may affect you to some degree in some area of your life.

Some of these cycles are easy to anticipate by just looking at the natal chart.
** On a daily basis we see that the Moon will move through the charts signs, crossing them every two and a half days. We can look for an emotional and reactive period when a house has a natal planet in it. Sure, this may not be very evident in the first days of your life. But what about your adult life?
** On a life-long basis, using the Moon within a secondary progression cycle (this is symbolic time but is certainly as valid as 'real' time), we can anticipate the Moon passing through each sign every two and a half years, reacting with natal planets found there. The house position will point to natural areas of expression.
** We can do the same for the Sun on a yearly basis or on a progression basis.
** What is not so easy to see is the movement of single planets over time through the zodiac as seen from earth. Instead, we might choose to use solar-arc directions in which all planets and angles are shifted relative to the Sun rate of advance. The directed planets then recombine with the natal planets and yield fascinating indications of the natal planets interacting in ways not expected.
** Of course, we can anticipate the movements of Jupiter, Saturn and the outer planets, taking note of long trends of symbolic development.
** And, finally, we might think of any two natal planets having an aspectual relationship and we can track their combined cycle relative to each other. This is more sophisticated.

What it all boils down to is that we are born into a changing world. Our experience brings change to us and we bring change to how we choose to react to situations that we have encountered before. We grow. We change. The question for the astrologer is, "How will you measure change? How will you meet change? How will you choose to grow? What will you hold onto?" Dave

Astrology has always looked at cycles, the solar and lunar cycles being the most obvious, followed by the cycles of the planets. Much of prediction is based on these cycles, either in whole or part. Change too something the human race has lived with for a long time, so I agree with your conclusions that life is concerned with adaption to change. That doesn't mean that life is not pre-determined, nor does it mean that we have free will or free choice. It is possible that we may believe that we have choice but in fact live predetermined lives in which we do adapt in a predetermined way to changes in our experiences. That is we have the illusion of free choice but not the reality. If we believe that our actionss are of our own free will then we will behave in a different (though possibly equally determined way) than if we believe that we have no choice and what will be, will be. Whether we are free to make a choice or things are determined, may actually be a different question than one relating to what should I do to change my behaviour.

In modern / esoteric / evolutionary astrology it is perfectly possible, as human soul is to evolve and equipped with free will.

According to the traditional astrology, it is different story. They seem to have believed that once it is in the chart, the native is succumbed to fate. It is not changeable.

Actually Traditional Astrology is not based on the idea that our lives are predetermined or that we have no choice in what actions we can take to make life better or to shed unwanted traits. Individual Astrologers might have taken life as more the determination of fate, but that was by no means true of them all. In just the same way, there are modern Astrologers who talk as if our psyche produces predispositions that are very difficult to change. Vettius Valens, one of those early Astrologers who seem to have been more of the 'life is fate' group, relates the story of being involved in a ship wreck. He survived but others died. He recognised that fate is not always unavoidable. There are ways of changing the odds. That might be through appeals to the Gods (not guaranteed to work) or that the fates change their minds for other reasons. All Hellenistic Astrologers allowed for fortune or luck - the Lot of Fortune was built into their system as a very important (perhaps second only to the Ascendant) point. It was also recognised that we might be able to influence events - the Lot of Spirit shows that. But not everyone is equally able to influence events and not everyone has the same level of luck. The same is true of life today. Some people defy the odds and succeed, whereas others who should succeed, actually fail.

Of course we might say that this is because the former is a more evolved soul than the latter. a line of argument used by Alan Leo, the inventor of modern Astrology.

A probably more accurate comment would be that traditional Astrology is more willing to recognise the risks that arise throughout life and that life is not always good. a more modern approach is to only talk about the positive things in life and to say to clients that they can achieve any goal they set themselves, no matter how improbable the chances of achieving it.

Using modern language the Hellenistic answer to what should I do, is to identify your strengths and weaknesses, and, in the light of what you know about the way you are influenced by luck on the one had and your own abilities on the other, work to improve your strengths and to reduce your weaknesses. In so doing you are working with fate, to the extent that it affects you and you are exercising the mamimum free will or choice that is available.
 

foolMoon

Actually Traditional Astrology is not based on the idea that our lives are predetermined or that we have no choice in what actions we can take to make life better or to shed unwanted traits. Individual Astrologers might have taken life as more the determination of fate, but that was by no means true of them all. In just the same way, there are modern Astrologers who talk as if our psyche produces predispositions that are very difficult to change. Vettius Valens, one of those early Astrologers who seem to have been more of the 'life is fate' group, relates the story of being involved in a ship wreck. He survived but others died. He recognised that fate is not always unavoidable. There are ways of changing the odds. That might be through appeals to the Gods (not guaranteed to work) or that the fates change their minds for other reasons. All Hellenistic Astrologers allowed for fortune or luck - the Lot of Fortune was built into their system as a very important (perhaps second only to the Ascendant) point. It was also recognised that we might be able to influence events - the Lot of Spirit shows that. But not everyone is equally able to influence events and not everyone has the same level of luck. The same is true of life today. Some people defy the odds and succeed, whereas others who should succeed, actually fail.

Of course we might say that this is because the former is a more evolved soul than the latter. a line of argument used by Alan Leo, the inventor of modern Astrology.

A probably more accurate comment would be that traditional Astrology is more willing to recognise the risks that arise throughout life and that life is not always good. a more modern approach is to only talk about the positive things in life and to say to clients that they can achieve any goal they set themselves, no matter how improbable the chances of achieving it.

Using modern language the Hellenistic answer to what should I do, is to identify your strengths and weaknesses, and, in the light of what you know about the way you are influenced by luck on the one had and your own abilities on the other, work to improve your strengths and to reduce your weaknesses. In so doing you are working with fate, to the extent that it affects you and you are exercising the mamimum free will or choice that is available.

A great post, Minderwiz. It widened and deepend my vista on the topic. Thanks.